.............. I came to avsim because I was asked by a new developer that I am assisting, at no cost to he and his team, to help bolster his sales at affordable prices to the consumer; a very honest and ethical developer, unlike Randazzo from what I have been told by other posts in different forums such as this.............

What!? Have you been engaging in some kind of marketing activities at AVSIM on behalf of a 3rd party Developer? What do you mean 'came to AVSIM......... to bolster sales........'? - how exactly have you been doing this? please feel free to clarify.

Hello, everybody!I am sure PMDG guys are happy reading this thread and thankful for this spontaneous advertisement. Especially in the face of the forthcoming iFly 737NG.On a side note:Yes, PMDG products are expensive. Very expensive. This is what I like least about them. It is my, customer's, right to judge it like this within my own eyes.But I did pay for the 747 and I did pay for the MD-11. Why? I had no alternatives to fly professional renditions of these aircraft (iFly 747 was fun for some time).The PDMG team are aware of that and keep prices high. If I were them, I would try to attract more customers (and discourage potential torrenters) by very attractive discounts, especially of legacy products (like the mentioned 737) but it is their decision only. The fact I won't buy from them anymore is only because they don't care about FS9 anymore. If they made a Dash 8, 737, 757, 777 or an airbus for FS9, I would most probably purchase again even though it is never an easy financial decision to me.So quality creates prices, no matter if we like it or not. In my opinion MSFS addons are generally overpriced (usually more expensive than the platform itself) but there are still thousands of madmen (including me) who will pay for them anyway! :(

Is it just me, or does this behaviour seem a little bit out of order? I am not a moderator for Avsim, so I don't know the forum rules word for word, but one can hardly fail to observe that, to put it mildly, it is straining a few of Avsim's guidelines...If the OP's purpose is assisting a developer, then surely he/she should volunteer to be identified as such, as other commercial developers have to be when posting on Avsim? Furthermore, it hardly seems very ethical to disguise one's methods in that regard by posing as 'Joe Punter who is puzzled about pricing' when one is in fact attempting to indulge in a combination of mud-slinging and/or research for a commercial developer (bizarre and very poor research it appears, but business research nonetheless, and therefore commercially motivated).Even more off the wall is to try and take the stance of admiring an ethical stance in business, when doing something like this, which is nothing if not completely unethical in its methodology. The forum members of Avsim are not lab rats for the indulgences of some clandestine developer's lacky, and if anyone is going to attempt to treat them as such, for cheap 'research' purposes, and descend into personal attacks and sly negative marketing tactics whilst doing so then, again, they should state their position, or at least be identified as having a commercial motivation for attempting to do so.Beyond that, indulging in personal mud-slinging at another developer's employees in an attempt to bolster the sales of a rival commercial developer whom someone is assisting (if that is indeed the intent, as stated), is most definitely a no no as far as Avsim's forum rules go. Even a blind man could spot that one.I think you'd have to be very naive to imagine commercial developers don't indulge in a little bit of seeding from time to time on forums, but this one is so blatant - even admitting it has commercial motivations - that it is farcical. If ever a thread needed a lock, this was it.Al

Secondly, I would e-mail PMDG but Randazzo is unbelievably arrogant and has stated that 80 percent of their "clients" are European, so what would the point be? Given Randazzo's life outside of flight-simming according to an article done on him by Avsim, I don't think he needs any extra money from flight-simming.

YOU are unbelievably arrogant and your remark about extra money is one of the most stupid thing I've read in this forum.I don't know and care for whom you are trying to "help bolster his sales" but let me tell you that you are not using the best method.Saying that your friend is a "very honest and ethical developer, unlike Randazzo" is a scummy personal attack and won't be tolerated here.First and last warning Sir.

That's what this button is here for folks.

This isn't the first time AceBrando7 has attacked PMDG's pricing and its staff. See post #26 in http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p;hl=PMDG+priceI wonder what his reason was then?

This isn't the first time AceBrando7 has attacked PMDG's pricing and its staff. See post #26 in http://forums1.avsim.net/index.php?showtop...p;hl=PMDG+priceI wonder what his reason was then?

Well, being inclined to give someone the benefit of the doubt, I would take the view that there is nothing wrong with objecting to something if it rubs you up the wrong way, so long as a complaint is reasonably-founded and not defamatory. This is a forum after all, so we can expect personal opinions. There doesn't necessarily have to be an underhand motivation for every complaint somebody makes, other than personal feelings. The other post you link to may simply be a case of that, even though it is not particularly demonstrative of what one might call a gentlemanly approach to complaining. But in the case of this thread, there clearly is an ulterior motive at work, and frankly, if it is true that a developer has asked the OP to indulge in some task that has prompted this thread, and this is a demonstration of how that task is being carried out, then if I were that developer, I would drop the guy like a hot rock, as I suspect it would be more than a developer's reputation is worth to be associated with such methods.We can expect some products to take a bit of FLAK from time to time, and even expect a company's policies to undergo similar trials if someone has a particular gripe about something that is fairly reasonable. But when such actions are a blatant mask for other agendas, then it is definitely something that should be flagged up. Of course I would not wish every negative comment somebody posts to prompt a witch hunt, and we should all be careful to avoid doing that.Al

Well, being inclined to give someone the benefit of the doubt...

The OP basically is still re-iterating the points he made previously. PMDG's products are over priced (because he can't afford them?) and Robert Randazzo is arrogant (because he didnt agree with the OP?)

That has been going on for quite a while now. The PMDG MD-11 costs like $54 bucks and now I can't even use my mother's credit card to buy it.

But surely from the very beginning any developer must have a good idea of the ultimate asking price based on what the market will bear, as evinced by the prices of other, similar, products. Prices can't sensibly be set in isolation from what the market will bear. If a developer's costs get out of hand, it can't set the asking price well above market price and expect to recover those costs. The best it can hope for is to aim to set a price that maximises revenue.Ultimately, although perhaps indirectly, it is still the buyer who determines the selling price.

We actually agree MGH. These discussions are usually circular in reasoning. Directly or indirectly consumers effect price levels but they do not set prices.Wholesale and retail suppliers/vendors do that and retailers usually offer sales incentives from time to time. Consumers simply choose to participate at that level or not.Drop over to your local Best Buy and tell them their prices are way out of line and you just won't purchase anymore until they set prices to your liking.They will likely smile, thank you for your input, and wish you a good day. Before you leave, the folks in the office will be saying who the heck was that guy? Does he not understand how things work??Try that at the local gas station and see if the owner will reduce his price to your liking... Well, you get the picture... :(

We actually agree MGH. These discussions are usually circular in reasoning. Directly or indirectly consumers effect price levels but they do not set prices.

I chose my words carefully. I wrote of producers setting prices but of buyers determining them.

I chose my words carefully. I wrote of producers setting prices but of buyers determining them.

Trying to do the same...Buyers do determine participation at pricepoints for themselves as individuals but not for fellow buyers or vendors except in general/broad terms.

The OP basically is still re-iterating the points he made previously. PMDG's products are over priced (because he can't afford them?) and Robert Randazzo is arrogant (because he didnt agree with the OP?)

Im not on any side with this one, other than my views i made earlier on PMDG, which are my own opinion, but just because someone says something is overpriced doesnt mean they cant afford it. Let's not jump to conclusions here. P.S i am in no way trying to defend Ace, just giving my opinions and nothing more.P.S.S PMDG, you do make fabulous aircraft, however I wish you would have stayed "in-line" with the customer.

With all due respect to you. We in the industry see the EU as the EU, not as individual countries with their own currencies. Therefore Airbus (EADS) is a type of governmental entity, and they can therefore compete with Boeing. With the financial structure of the EU, Scare-bus would not be where they are today. The entire A380 program has been paid for by the EU.Now they will be manufacturing A320s in China. So, will A320s be lower than the current price since they will be making more A320s at a lower manufacturing cost? Let's see what supply and demand does now.brando

With regard to EADS, the EU doesn't 'bail them out all the time', the various Governments of the major companies that make up the EADS consortium are and always have been guarantors of the consortium, because that is how it was set up, as a Groupement d'Interets Economique and not a Corporation, as Boeing is. This means that the formation of EADS was to some extent state backed, but the GIE status was intended to guarantee its stability as a consortium by means of the international treaty status of a GIE, not to bolster its bank balance. It is therefore not a bottomless pit of state funding, as some might like to imagine.Al

With all due respect to you. We in the industry see the EU as the EU, not as individual countries with their own currencies. Therefore Airbus (EADS) is a type of governmental entity, and they can therefore compete with Boeing. With the financial structure of the EU, Scare-bus would not be where they are today. The entire A380 program has been paid for by the EU.Now they will be manufacturing A320s in China. So, will A320s be lower than the current price since they will be making more A320s at a lower manufacturing cost? Let's see what supply and demand does now.brando

That's great, but I'd rather hear you reply to post #76.