:( Sounds like a great deal, thanks!

how buggy is the 727? captain sim seems to have a bad rep w/ many unofficial patches required to have the aircraft fully functioning.

still some nagging issues, they still haven't figured out why I can't get winglets to display on the freighter 727 and keep going in circles with me. A little underpowered and not the greatest FDE. But a fun airplane being the only 727 for FSX with a virtual cockpit.

All of their planes require edits to the aircraft.cfg and the sound.ini file, as well as some other small things (you must load the 727 twice to get all sounds working). Also, their FDE's aren't as good as PMDG, they don't have failures, no SDK, no FO callouts/crew interaction, the v-speed bugs aren't fully working, and no FS2Crew support. Besides that, at the sale price they are a steal. I have the C-130, 727-100, 727-200F, 757-200, 757-200F, and 767-300.I would recommend the C-130, 727-100, 757-200, and 767-300 to start with. That is alot of aircraft for about $60 US total, and they all have good system simulation, animations, VC's, and models. Add on some freight expansions as well if you like that sort of flying.

Vic, I would not hold breath about LDS 757, does not look like it will be released in the nearest time. Meanwhile you may try CS variant and who knows - may be you will not need to wait for LDS.

Well I would :( and it will change you're perspective what is realistic and what isn't :( After flying some real world level-d simulators it changed mine lolCheers,

Well I would :( and it will change you're perspective what is realistic and what isn't :( After flying some real world level-d simulators it changed mine lolCheers,

Andr

how buggy is the 727? captain sim seems to have a bad rep w/ many unofficial patches required to have the aircraft fully functioning.

An Avsim review of the CS 727 for FSX, (in its boxed DVD form from Just Flight, and written by me) is nearing completion and will be sent to Avsim's Reviews Editor within a day or two, and so it should appear on Avsim in a couple of weeks. But in the meantime, here's the gist of my opinion: Exterior modeling and animation is excellent. Interior modeling is very good but has one or two errors (however, these can mostly be fixed by the user). Flight model is pretty good, but the trim is too twitchy by far. The engines are underpowered for the later models, but okay for the 100 Series. The lack of comprehensive aircraft performance charts in the documentation, and indeed the lack of an OAT gauge on the panel, makes correctly using the EPR settings difficult (note that I point out some solutions to these issues in my review, so there is a way around this).So, on the whole it has a few minus points, but a lot of plus points too, and of the minus points, the vast majority of them are not insurmountable issues. Certainly worth getting if you like the 727 (especially for a tenner), but be prepared to do some tweaks and gather some documentation if you want to operate it like the real thing, which you can incidentally, as it is very comprehensive as far as systems modeling goes.Al

I've been hankering for a 727 ever since I left FS2004 behind along with the Dreamfleet 727. That bird was perhaps my all time favorite plane for FS2004 and I miss it dearly. So, systems wise, the CS 727 is comparable to the DF 727? That would be outstanding as I still have my printed DF 727 checklists and manuals and would love to carry them over for the CS 727.

Flight model is pretty good, but the trim is too twitchy by far. Al

Al,You can tone the trim sensitivity by changing the value of this in each of your 727's folders cfg in the Flight_Tuning section. Like this:from[flight_tuning]elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.0toelevator_trim_effectiveness=0.3

Yup, a simple enough fix of course, and that is why I mentioned that my review will include some solutions to the issues. However, while such tweaks as those are useful, and an attempt to be helpful, some of the errors in the product are not quite as easily fixable, and it is important for a review to cover the product 'as is', since not everyone is happy to indulge in tweaking. Moreover, buyers really should not have to do so when paying for something, and if they are prepared to do so, then it is the responsibility of a reviewer to make people aware that such things might be necessary. Here's an example of a slightly trickier fix to another issue with the CS 727, which again certainly can be corrected and which does also feature as part of that forthcoming review, but which should really have been fixed by the developers...As it comes, the CS 727's virtual cockpit throttle quadrant looks like this:Most 727 aficionados will know that there is a rather obvious error on that quadrant, namely the flap detent markers, which include '20 degrees', and you of course won't find that on a real 727. So, here it is, fixed up by me:That is to demonstrate that such errors can be fixed, but the fix involves finding the correct texture, opening it up in Photoshop, cloning out the error and then saving the DDS file. You'll notice I added a bit more scratching too, just for the hell of it. That sort of thing is easy to do if you are familiar with texture editing, but like any fix, including the config edit for the trim, not so easy for users who are not familiar with that kind of thing, or who may not happy to do such stuff. As noted, my review will explain all of the stuff that can be done to make the CS 727 more like it should be - there are a few other things that need to be done, and not all of them are without expense either - but the fact that they can be corrected does not make the product eligible for the kind of praise that a product which doesn't require such actions would receive.Al

I think I'm gonna get myself a 727 :( Thanks for the heads up StamPilot

Avoid the CS 757 like the plague. Tons of things wrong with it and the FPS are awful. The flight model is about as bad as an airliner flight model can get.I'd avoid the 727 too. The flight model feels quite wrong and there's plenty of small things wrong with it too. There are countless threads explaining the errors if you're interested.CS should stick with less-detailed but pretty aircraft, like the C-130 and their upcoming B-52 package. They don't put enough effort into making their planes accurate and easy on FPS. You CAN make a complex (and pretty) aircraft good on FPS...Any PMDG aircraft and the Level-D 767 destroy the CS aircraft handily, IMHO. :(

I guess I'm debating the 727 myself, but don't want to spend the first two hours tweaking/fixing it.Or maybe I'll settle for the 707 or 727 for FS9.

I think I'm gonna get myself a 727 :( Thanks for the heads up StamPilot

StamPilot sings the praises of CS no matter what, I would not take advice from a Captain Sim marketing person

To be fair, if you are not hugely familiar with the real 727's flight characteristics, you'd be hard pressed to know the difference between how the CS 727 and a real 727 flies, so it's a fair approximation of the real deal. Complaints aside, only the trim tweak to the config file and maybe that retouch I detailed on the preceding page would be necessary to get an entertaining experience of flying a 727 that is close enough to be enjoyable. The FE systems are certainly all there if you like playing with that stuff.Since the CS 727 manuals are a bit lacking in the necessary technical info, if you are more hardcore, then the experience can be improved by getting hold of these things:http://www.amazon.com/Boeing-Flight-Master...7147&sr=8-1http://cgi.ebay.com/Boeing-727-Aircraft-Fl...=item2307650966The first link is to a book aimed at passing a check ride in the 727. At nearly 600 pages, it's no quick read, but if you want to know how to drive a 727 properly, it's the best thing you can find, and although it is a bit of a dry read, the information is absolutely spot on in every respect, so if you like old airliners, it'll be worth having, although it will highlight what is lacking in the CS 727. The second link is to a scanned PDF of a TWA 727 SOP manual, which includes all of the charts that the CS manuals lack in order to use EPR properly, and lots of checklists too. You can trust that link by the way, I bought that exact PDF myself from the same source as part of the research for my Avsim review, and it is exactly what it says it is and well scanned too. Again, not a short read though - 750-plus pages. Read both of those and you could probably have a stab at flying the real thing.As a cheaper alternative, check out this site for a lot of info on flying the 727: http://www.boeing-727.com/With regard to the CS 727 being tough on frames in FSX, that is true, but it is not as tough on them as the CS FSX 757, since the avionics of the 727 are simpler, and to be fair, a lot of that system pressure is down to the fact that it does a lot of stuff, such as have an animated cargo uplift truck that you can drive and the fact that all the cabin is modeled. Be aware though that if you know how a real 727 flies, and expect it to be a carbon copy (which actually might be a big ask for any FS aircraft), then you might be slightly disappointed, as some stuff in the flight model is a bit unusual.Al