The coverage area for PE during the beta is not just the Socal Tracon, it's the entire Los Angeles ARTCC. Shortly after launch, we'll add the Oakland ARTCC, too. That will bring the coverage area up to a 600x400nm area with more than 200 public-use airports.

Oops I didn't mean to misrepresent those facts... In my head I was thinking socal as in ZLA and norcal as ZOA... doh!

For Coma. I do like the idea of what you are doing but here is my question. I fly only online and would like to perhaps use your network. BUT I fly the NG for a living and I dont think I will be coming home from flying a real aircraft and then have to pay to fly online. I like flying online but not that much. Do you have any solutions for people such as myself?

By that definition because I work ATC, I shouldn't have to pay for access to PE... or am I misunderstanding you? I guess you either use the service to maintain proficiency, or not hehe.

...

I recommend you to watch this video about motivation, monetary compensation and performance. It can be an eye opener

Jack, Great question. There is the frequent flier program (hasn't been formally announced, but you can read this thread for more info. If you're willing to fly quite a bit, this might work for you. That program will be offered to a relatively limited crowd (likely to be a few hundred people) to help provide a reasonable level of background traffic at all times. That said, you said you like flying online 'but not that much.' If that's the case, then it may well be that what we offer won't be of tremendous value to you. The type of person who is more likely to want to use our service is the type of person who REALLY wants ATC to be there for every flight. If guaranteed ATC presence, ATC quality, 100% voice comms and automated VFR traffic isn't that big of a factor for you, then I suspect that the $19/mth price tag will be a non-starter, as well the requirements that for qualifying for the FF program. There's one other avenue, and that will be the Charter Member program. We'll be offering pretty significant discounts for the people who sign up early and will then ramp up to the full retail price as time goes on. So, if you get in early, that's another avenue to save money, but in that specific case, it still won't be free. The best way to sum it up for each person who's considering it, I think, is that the service is either worth paying for, or it isn't (on a person by person basis). If it's worth paying for but one can't comfortably pay for it (college or high school students, or people without jobs at the moment), the FF program is a great choice. Dan summed it up pretty well before. If you want to fly some longer distances anywhere in the world, and ATC is just a 'nice to have' (either in terms of quality, or just basic presence) then PilotEdge isn't the right choice. If you're ok with our coverage area, though, then the service is really without equal anywhere in the market.

Coma, Thanks for the information:"The coverage area for PE during the beta is not just the Socal Tracon, it's the entire Los Angeles ARTCC. Shortly after launch, we'll add the Oakland ARTCC, too. That will bring the coverage area up to a 600x400nm area with more than 200 public-use airports." Sounds real good. I had to give up flying online (over a year ago) because of lack of controllers or controllers going off-line during flights.I have since flown alot (off-line) on the west coast using TEC (prop/jet) routes. I will give PilotEdge a try after the Beta is completed .. approx 1OCT2011.

Perhaps you're not flying at the right times. Furthermore, it's also somewhat cyclical. Over the summer, hours drop slightly with people going on vacations and the like. Beyond that, the members tend to move around a lot because of boredom with the location, or disagreements with staff or new members. Agreed. There's a lot that absolutely needs to change, but they really like to just pretend nothing's wrong. Shameless plug:Come to DC - we're on a lot. Just don't call me DC Center, and you'll be fine.

Kyle you do ZDC and PCT, or just ZDC?

ZDC and PCT. If I have a choice, it's PCT, but most of the time I'm on ZDC because there aren't many people to take it.

Quick question about PE as I am interested, would it be possible to say, begin a flight on the PE network then fly to the east coast and connect to VATSIM for the landing? If I were to subscribe to the service I would be doing lots of intra-California/Vegas/reno flying but I also enjoy doing longer flights and I don't want to limit myself to just the west coast. Ben

As a RW pilot and a long time simer im willing to pay a fee per month to log in to a network and have ATC 24/7 .when it comes to VATSIM there is alot that could be change and im sure more guys/girls would enjoy the network alot more . Now some years ago me and some friends (we were 18 all toghether ) had this idea of putting up a server with all this services . that was intended just for flightsiming as a hobby and not a busines.We even set out a PDF document with requirements similar to a very realistic enviroment considering the limitations of FS9 at the time and even after FSX bud the idea was left alone .Also at the same time i had some other friends over that were goin to be our tech team and they had this idea that I mention on another forum on the net . we call it TrafficFlow its just a software that runs a side from FS9/FSX and controls AI traffic in a realistic way folliwing real world procedures . we have got far on the project and if we ever finish it it would be all free. at this time we had to stop development because real life keeps us busy .Now getting back to the topic of Vatsim , it feels weird when as a real world pilot or controller you put out a set of ideas and try to imform someone that changing things would produce a better flow and better enviroment and instead of listening you get no response at all . The software thats available to us today to connect to the network its pretty old but FREE and i would like to take the chance and thank all the devs that took the time to put this software out so we can use it FREE . Im also willing to donate money for the farther development of SB4 or similar software .

Seems like an interesting idea. If I were an investor I'd be worried about the sub fee and area covered. Flight simming isn't cheap but is $19/month for a limited area attractive enough to keep the service alive and growing? I play MMOs (stay with me!) and the percieved value for a MMO is $14.99/month. By that I mean after $14.99 people begin to balk at the price. I'm not sure that @ $19 you're at the best point of the supply/demand curve. But what do I know... Additionally, there is a strong European, Brazilian and Australian presence in FS. I don't pretend to be a programmer, but what can be done to get those areas onboard? I think your service would benefit greatly if somehow you could get at least (Western) Europe out for launch or shortly thereafter. In regard to development of software, I would pay $5 in a second to have better online software. I tried my first VATSIM flight last night and almost got banned! How was I supposed to know that LAX_CTR had hundreds of miles of control?! It was more realistic, but in retrospec, I'm not running back to try it again. Seemed a bit hostile to me. (My own fault here as I should have RTFF (Read the ******* forums!))

Quick question about PE as I am interested, would it be possible to say, begin a flight on the PE network then fly to the east coast and connect to VATSIM for the landing? If I were to subscribe to the service I would be doing lots of intra-California/Vegas/reno flying but I also enjoy doing longer flights and I don't want to limit myself to just the west coast. Ben

That's not a problem. We would just ask that you disconnect from PE after leaving the ATC coverage area to avoid confusion for pilots who might look at the status map and might be lead to believe that the service provides coverage in parts of the country where it fundamentally does not.If we do expand within the USA, it's likely that the east coast would be the next area to get coverage in any case.

I agree with the $14.95 threshold for MMO's for a retail audience. $19 is the full retail price prior to any discounts. There will be discounts for sim enthusiasts that join through partner VA's and also for the early adopters across the board. Please bear in mind, the primary pricing model is aimed at real world student pilots and instrument students. It's a mistake to apply that to the sim enthusiast market and be concerned about the health of the overall venture when the bulk of the revenue for the venture will be coming from r/w pilots and commercial users. I don't mean to imply that sim enthusiasts will be left in the cold. I am simply saying that the full retail pricing model isn't really designed with them in mind. As I said, we're going to try to find other channels with a different price point to bring in sim enthusiasts as much as possible. Regarding the coverage area, obviously there could be demand for this in other countries...but getting this running in a given location is not a simple matter of flicking a switch, I'll leave it at that. :) I will say that we are open to working with other companies that might be interested in opening a similar service in other countries. Or, we might simply tackle it ourselves at a later date.

just my $0.02 worth....use FSINN instead of SB4....much much better.

Our group uses VATSIM almost daily, and makes numerous flights during Saturdays and Sundays. We've never had an issue of not having ATC on VATSIM, but we do fly the events and schedule our flights for where there is ATC. It's obvious that VATSIM could stand some improvement in all areas. I can imagine the leadership and management challenge is very tough given that you have an all volunteer group for whom ATC is a hobby, born out of flight simulation. Given that, I am amazed at what VATSIM has achieved. Again, improvement is needed. As a Navy retiree with many years of experience in technical project management with advanced computer and electronic systems, and a second career in the financial world that included business management and marketing for U.S. based international companies, I would say that a fee for service environment has, at least initially, it's niche. I also believe the developer has correctly seen that niche as the student pilot market. In time, it may grow to where those from the flight sim community at large becomes interested in such a fee for service arrangement. It's important to bare in mind what it costs to rent a Ventrilo or TeamSpeak server, which is roughly $15 to $20 per quarter. At first glance one may not see the parallel, but I assure you it's there. Certainly the answer to cost reduction is in the numbers, but correctly deciding on which is the chicken and the egg is the difficult part. Successful business models have long shown that developing the market and establishing the client base is is the egg, not the other way around. A tough choice to be sure. That's my professional take on the venture. I would like to see any venture that adds to my enjoyment of this hobby be successful. For the present, our group is having a lot of fun, and a little frustration here and there, with VATSIM. Be well.

Dave, Thanks for your insight. It sounds like your group has found the best way to enjoy VATSIM, which is to use it during its busiest times when there is the closest thing to scheduled ATC, which would be the events. If you fly big tin and you're willing to go where the ATC is, then it actually works quite well. At this point, you've learned how to interpret the controller lists and who to call at a given airport to receive ATC service. In fact, if you're flying at events, then chances are, the airports are individually staffed, which makes the experience even better. We will see what the adoption rate is among the sim enthusiast community. It was always forecast to be rather light, and I don't see any signs of that changing, even if we were to strip away the pricing completely. The limited coverage area is an issue for most of the heavy metal drivers. Within the markets that we are targeting, however, the traction we are seeing during demos at various tradeshows (Oshkosh, AOPA Summit, etc) has been encouraging.

I am a CFI working on my CFII and its very hard to find controllers on Vatsim in the Jacksonville area and thats where myself and the other students who use FSX try and fly. I always ask my students if they use FSX or FS9 and if they do fly online to get that real ATC feel. I don't like sending them to other parts of the country as they don't have the charts and yes you can download them free on some web sites but it still costs them ink to print.I loving flying online but lately its flying the C172 with the Flight One Tech G1000 in North Florida when i can find a online controller. JeffG