The only 2d popup I ever use is the cdu because of the touchscreen. If I were a programming ninja who could devise a way to turn a finger-flick into a right-click macro I'd use the overhead as well, but I'm not...

Ah, but ain't life just grand. It's nice to see an intelligently handled conversation. There is no right or wrong here, just personal choice and preferences. IMHO, developers, manufacturers, other folks who mnake or produce things for people to buy need to pay attention to what people want. People "vote" with their hard earned money.Agreed, this discussion will never end because people have likes and dislikes, preferences. I do sincerely wish that someone from PMDG would make an official statement about whether there WILL or WILL NOT a 2D cockpit in the 777. Easy enough to do, a simple binary yes or no, no trade secrets or promises to divulge, dates "not" to discuss, but a simple YES or NO would be just great. If the issue is not yet settled, then that would be nice to know. INFORMATION is all I believe people would like to know, no biggie, 2D or not.Please, Capt Randazo, Ryan, Dr Vaos, just a word or two; a minute to help those of us who are intertested level set our expectations and get on with it. Like Control said in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, "just one word, Jim, just one word....." 2D 3D or Both. 8-)=Thanks so much for listeningbest regards,Paul BenoitKBOS/KOWD

Why are people being so rude in this topic?The "3D" crowd are hostile for some reason. Nobody is taking away the version you use and whether 2D is there or not doesn't affect you anyway, so why are you attacking those who want the 2D panels? What difference does it make to you?Simply mind boggling.As for which panels are there, I hope they are both present because I like having the option.Jeff Calder

Because they're being whiny...? I don't know.The thing I don't understand is people keep bringing it up, even though the issue has been hashed out already. It happened on the JS4100, on the MD-11, and on the NGX.Every. Single. Time.2D panel development in the full suite sense stopped with the Queen. It's not coming back. How many development cycles does it take to drive that point home?Likewise:Elvis is gone, MJ is gone, Tupac is gone, Biggie is gone, the Dodo is gone, Surge Cola is gone, and a whole litany of other things are gone. No manner of asking is going to bring them back. Give it up already.

Edited February 16, 201214 yr by scandinavian13

Look, you take what you get, PMDG are making a VC only model, you dont like it, then dont buy it.I used to be a 2d driver, then after the NGX was released I became a VC only driver - I'm loving it. Just take the plunge, you'll have to convert like I did at some stage. Who would want to fly in 2d anyway in a PMDG qualty 777?

I also don't really understand the arrogance and rudeness of some people over this in relation to wanting/preferring a 2D cockpit.Cheers,Rudy

Ah, but ain't life just grand. It's nice to see an intelligently handled conversation. There is no right or wrong here, just personal choice and preferences. IMHO, developers, manufacturers, other folks who mnake or produce things for people to buy need to pay attention to what people want. People "vote" with their hard earned money.Agreed, this discussion will never end because people have likes and dislikes, preferences. I do sincerely wish that someone from PMDG would make an official statement about whether there WILL or WILL NOT a 2D cockpit in the 777. Easy enough to do, a simple binary yes or no, no trade secrets or promises to divulge, dates "not" to discuss, but a simple YES or NO would be just great. If the issue is not yet settled, then that would be nice to know. INFORMATION is all I believe people would like to know, no biggie, 2D or not.Please, Capt Randazo, Ryan, Dr Vaos, just a word or two; a minute to help those of us who are intertested level set our expectations and get on with it. Like Control said in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, "just one word, Jim, just one word....." 2D 3D or Both. 8-)=Thanks so much for listeningbest regards,Paul BenoitKBOS/KOWD

They've stated already that future projects are 3D only with the occasional 2D popup...

They've stated already that future projects are 3D only with the occasional 2D popup...

They'll probably have something like a pop up FMC, overhead and individual screens. They just don't want to model the entire thing because it seems like a waste of resources if the VC is so complete and thorough.Even on the NGX there is no throttle quadrant. Still, I hope that they include at least a few 2D pop-ups like the ones that I mentioned above, just because it is easier and is nicer on frames than the VC if I'm in a heavy fps hitting area.

Edited February 16, 201214 yr by theshack440

 

Look, you take what you get, PMDG are making a VC only model, you dont like it, then dont buy it.

Agreed. I have looked through a lot of 777 related topics and have yet to find one that says in concrete that it'll be VC only, so I'm not sure why everyone's panties are in a bunch, but it is what it is. If PMDG has found that development cost is more than the money they'd earn from users who won't buy this plane due to lack of 2D then so be it.

Who would want to fly in 2d anyway in a PMDG qualty 777?

Look back in the topic, there's a few people giving their reasons why they want 2D panels.As I stated before, I'm quite neutral on the subject. I don't really care if it's VC only or 2D only or both. What I don't understand is the last thing I quoted from Rudy above. Some condescending quip towards those who want 2D panels. Uncalled for in my opinion.Jeff Calder

I think a lot of 3D fliers don't realize that lots of people don't fly on just one computer screen.I've seen lots of pictures of pilots building simpits that have multiple screens, each with an undocked 2D panel on it to simulate a real cockpit instead of one screen that can move around a 3D environment.In my opinion, if you have just one screen a 3D VC is the realistic way to fly. Some pilots use 1 screen and still prefer 2D, that's fine except sooner or later they will have to adapt and change with the rest of the flight sim world. There are plenty of tools to help people navigate a 3D VC that make it just as quick to perform tasks as a 2D panel.But for the simpit builders, VC won't help them at all, so they're the ones that are really at a loss when 2D goes out the window.At that point, buying actual components (like GoFlight modules) will be the only way to get a simpit. More expensive then extra monitors, but at the same time even more realistic.

...In my opinion, if you have just one screen a 3D VC is the realistic way to fly. Some pilots use 1 screen and still prefer 2D, that's fine except sooner or later they will have to adapt and change with the rest of the flight sim world. There are plenty of tools to help people navigate a 3D VC that make it just as quick to perform tasks as a 2D panel....

No, there isnt. There is no way to get rid of some of the head movement. Its hardcoded into the executable. I fly many planes in the VC, but I prefer 2d. How hard is that to understand?

You're not allowed to prefer 2D. It makes you outdated, not willing to adapt and it's not "pretty" enough. Apparently it makes you insane too, because who in their right mind would use a 2D panel?Haha.Jeff Calder

but I prefer 2d. How hard is that to understand?

I understand it just fine.Maybe you missed where I said this?

Some pilots use 1 screen and still prefer 2D, that's fine

Wasn't bashing 2D fliers. Calm down.

After reading 4 pages I was about to post what this guy said:

I think a lot of 3D fliers don't realize that lots of people don't fly on just one computer screen.I've seen lots of pictures of pilots building simpits that have multiple screens, each with an undocked 2D panel on it to simulate a real cockpit instead of one screen that can move around a 3D environment.In my opinion, if you have just one screen a 3D VC is the realistic way to fly. Some pilots use 1 screen and still prefer 2D, that's fine except sooner or later they will have to adapt and change with the rest of the flight sim world. There are plenty of tools to help people navigate a 3D VC that make it just as quick to perform tasks as a 2D panel.But for the simpit builders, VC won't help them at all, so they're the ones that are really at a loss when 2D goes out the window.At that point, buying actual components (like GoFlight modules) will be the only way to get a simpit. More expensive then extra monitors, but at the same time even more realistic.

Some people myself included prefer 2D panels because they can be undocked and placed on different monitors, creating a full home-made cockpit with just a few monitors and a joystick. Someone asked why would I want to fly in 2d mode instead of the 3d mode: I prefer 2d panels becuase in the 3d cockpit you cant have this setup:I love the 777 but I will not pay for a product that can not be used in a multi-monitor setup like the one shown above. It will be a pity to miss the 777 but I still have thousands of hours of fun flying the 744 and the MD-11. I do not need to sacrifice my favourite desktop setup in order to fly a long hauler.So there you got another reason to maintain the 2d panel option.Regards, Daniel Santos.

Edited February 18, 201214 yr by danipelos

After reading 4 pages I was about to post what this guy said:Some people myself included prefer 2D panels because they can be undocked and placed on different monitors, creating a full home-made cockpit with just a few monitors and a joystick. Someone asked why would I want to fly in 2d mode instead of the 3d mode: I prefer 2d panels becuase in the 3d cockpit you cant have this setup:I love the 777 but I will not pay for a product that can not be used in a multi-monitor setup like the one shown above. It will be a pity to miss the 777 but I still have thousands of hours of fun flying the 744 and the MD-11. I do not need to sacrifice my favourite desktop setup in order to fly a long hauler.So there you got another reason to maintain the 2d panel option.

+1 for youPilots that have setups like yourself are really going to be on the short end of the stick when the 777 rolls out.I really do feel sorry for you guys.It's too bad PMDG is pulling the plug on simpits like the one above.