The best classic model available is by far the SimCheck A300 or Leonardo Maddog 2010. Systems modeling. Real documentation. Great sounds. Decent model and good VC. There are other developers out there, you're just not looking hard enough.

I don't consider these models Classics in the sense that I meant it. Both the A300, and MD-80 are aircraft of the 70's (I don't have the Simcheck or the Maddog myself, but I do hear there very good). Aircraft like the 707,727, 737-100 and 200 , DC-8 and 9 as well as the Comet and Tridents are the planes that started it all. (Jet Airliners). As such do not have the type of systems originally that came on line with aircraft such as the A300. Captain Sim also has a tradition of modeling the earliest of the variants they produce. The other problem is that aircraft of this era required a flight crew of 3. For any developer to come to this level of accuracy, would mean it would be hard for a single person to fly her. Now if we expand to Props then I would say the A2A 377 would be best available, at least there you have the Accusim system helping out. Then you have the PMDG DC-6 which is sure to be a winner.

Props then I would say the A2A 377 would be best available, at least there you have the Accusim system helping out.

Now this I can agree on.As far as the rest, I understand your point. What I consider a classic jet is obviously slightly different from you. I heard Alice in Chains on my classic rock station the other day and was slightly irritated. I think that parallels the difference in your opinion and mine.

IThe other problem is that aircraft of this era required a flight crew of 3. For any developer to come to this level of accuracy, would mean it would be hard for a single person to fly her.

Not that it was really the point that you were making, but just for the record, this is not true where the 737 original is concerned according to the FAA amongst others. It was designed from day one to be flown by two pilots, not three. It was the unions which forced the situation where it had to have a crew of three in the US and France.From the outset, Boeing chose to make the 737 a two-crew aircraft (you can in fact tell that from the size of the cockpit, the proximity of the rear cockpit bulkhead to the pilots, and the placement of the engine gauges that this was the case), but when Lockheed tried to do that a few years prior to the 737 on the Electra, the unions went ballistic, and the issue was still a sticking point in the late Sixties when the 737 went into service. As a result, an extensive test was made, with a crew comprising a Boeing pilot and an FAA pilot, who flew at the busiest time of the year for an extended test, which comprised 40 sectors flown over just six days during Thanksgiving, routing between Boston and Washington. The tests included minimums approaches, simulated crew incapacitations, simulated instrument failures, simulated engine failures, aborted take offs, go arounds, diversions and all manner of other stress-inducing situations, but the result was that the FAA issued a statement in late 1967 which confirmed that the Boeing 737 could be safely operated by a crew of two. A fact which the years have proved is correct, since the 737 is statistically the safest airliner in the world.Despite this, American Airlines, United, Western, and a couple of other US airlines insisted that the 737 be flown with a crew of three right up until 1982 because of pressure from unions. The rest of the world - France being a notable exception - operated it largely as it was designed to be operated, with a crew of two. This is in fact one of the reasons why the launch customer was Lufthansa and not a US carrier. It is also why Dassault attempted to cash in on matters with the visually near-identical Mercure airliner; because Air France pilots also complained about the 737 having a crew of two rather thatn three and put pressure on Air France not to buy the 737, unfortunately for Dassault, the Mercure might have looked like the 737, but it sure didn''t fly like it when it came to operational economy, even though it was a good aircraft from an aerodynamic point of view, with a much higher set of VNEs for various flight stages than the 737 has, for example it was capable of being descended at upwards of 20,000 feet per minute, which is what happens when you get a fighter jet company to design an airliner LOL.Al

From the outset, Boeing chose to make the 737 a two-crew aircraft (you can in fact tell that from the size of the cockpit, the proximity of the rear cockpit bulkhead to the pilots, and the placement of the engine gauges that this was the case), but when Lockheed tried to do that a few years prior to the 737 on the Elecktra, the unions went ballistic, and the issue was still a sticking point in the late Sixties when the 737 went into service. As a result, an extensive test was made, with a crew comprising a Boeing pilot and an FAA pilot, who flew at the busiest time of the year for an extended test, which comprised 40 sectors flown over just six days during Thanksgiving, routing between Boston and Washington. The tests included minimums approaches, simulated crew incapacitations, simulated instrument failures, simulated engine failures, aborted take offs, go arounds, diversions and all manner of other stress-inducing situations, but the result was that the FAA issued a statement in late 1967 which confirmed that the Boeing 737 could be safely operated by a crew of two. A fact which the years have proved is correct, since the 737 is statistically the safest airliner in the world.

But also the most prevalent.You brought up one of my favorite topics. The old union dispute regarding the 2 pilot config of the 737. Piedmont was one of the first (after United [launch customer], I believe) US operators of the -200s. The crews coming from the 727s where mostly the trouble starters. Being a third pilot riding shotgun behind the quadrant and being paid FE salary would have been a cush' job!

Al, take a bow.Your immense wealth of knowledge, R/L, never ceases to amaze me. You remind me of another sage, sadly now no more(R.I.P.), Opa. Even being an ex-BA G/e, I'm still learning from your input. Much appreciated.

Already bought one from Just Flight made by Blackbox simulations, getting fatal error when loading the plane and redownload & install did not help...This one will stay as other option for me in case that they cant find the problem.

Shouldn't have bought it, Todd. What you purchased was a -100 model. We can't push it too far.Thought I was reading a Haiku or something similar for a second there.

My iPhone creates poetry from prose ;-)

I remember I bought a 727 from Captain Sim for FS2004 about 7 years ago and I was hugely disappointed with the quality. Are they way better now? I never bought anything from them since.

Already bought one from Just Flight made by Blackbox simulations, getting fatal error when loading the plane and redownload & install did not help...This one will stay as other option for me in case that they cant find the problem.

Please contact our support team and we will sort out the fatal error for you.

Already bought one from Just Flight made by Blackbox simulations, getting fatal error when loading the plane and redownload & install did not help...This one will stay as other option for me in case that they cant find the problem.

At present, you can only use this plane when it is loaded directly after the default FSX C172. Attempting to load it straight from the FSX Airplane menu, or after any other airplane, will result in the fatal error you are seeing.So...load up a default flight, with the C172, go to the 2D panel ('A' key), turn all of the C172's switches off, then load up the Just Flight 737, and all will be well. (It will load up in 2D, so again, just press 'A' to get back to the VC.Virtually no FSX aircraft require you to do this these days; it is as a result of the 'FS9' design ethos used by the developers of this aircraft I'm afraid. (Black Box, formerly PSS).

I am perfectly happy with all of my Captain Sim aircraft, especially the 727 and 707 (still haven't had time to try the 737). No one (except PMDG) even comes close to the texture detail within the virtual cockpit and cabin of Captain Sim's aircraft and they all fly well for me too.

Absolutely. I've got the 737.... It's a piece of art! I tend to forgive some tech issues when I got the model like this:

Those are really nice pics :smile:I'm having evil thoughts about heading over and buying into this community involvement program .... :(

At present, you can only use this plane when it is loaded directly after the default FSX C172. Attempting to load it straight from the FSX Airplane menu, or after any other airplane, will result in the fatal error you are seeing.So...load up a default flight, with the C172, go to the 2D panel ('A' key), turn all of the C172's switches off, then load up the Just Flight 737, and all will be well. (It will load up in 2D, so again, just press 'A' to get back to the VC.Virtually no FSX aircraft require you to do this these days; it is as a result of the 'FS9' design ethos used by the developers of this aircraft I'm afraid. (Black Box, formerly PSS).

Ok, Just Flight support just told me to rename jf_sound.gau file to something else and now normal start seems to be work, I am not exactly sure what sounds I lost with that gauge though.Would have probably bought CS one if I had noticed that it has been released already, but anyway at least for now I am happy with Black Box one, not as much eye candy as Captain Sim one of course, but still enough to fill my demands. Not sure about how complex system simulation it is, tomorrow I will really have time to test it.

The old FS2004 sound pack by Christoffer petersen here in the Avsim library is super with this bird!

I remember I bought a 727 from Captain Sim for FS2004 about 7 years ago and I was hugely disappointed with the quality. Are they way better now? I never bought anything from them since.

Yes, they are really good. In terms of eye candy and graphical detail they are probably the best one around, and also systems are mostly well simulated. Some bugs especially just after release, but they get fixed in free service packs.Flight dynamics seem to be mostly ok too.