Hi Stephen,

 

Thanks for taking time to write this down.

 

I've been with Avsim for 9 years now, since 2003 - actually it was earlier, I only joined 2003, but been simming and reading posts since about 2000. This has become my daily routine, I have many people I know (online) here - too bad I will probably never meet most of you, but still Avsim has become a part of my life. I am probably one of those aforementioned dedicated ones

 

I only want to let you know I'm 100% with you on this, as the rest of the Staff also apparently is and I hope this will help all of us make Avsim an awesome place to be.

Here Here to Avsim.

I would appreciate it, Stephen if you would add my name to the list of AVSIM supporters and enthusiasts. It's easy for those of us who are beneficiaries of the efforts of the many volunteers of AVSIM to not focus on just how much time and dedication it takes to continue to make all this possible for the rest of us. I tip my hat to you and your associates. Thank you!

 

The honesty and integrity of AVSIM and its administration and staff have never been open to debate in my mind and, I'll wager in any of the minds of the multitude of good folks who gather here to share and benefit.

Stephen, thank you. I forget the exact year I joined on staff, but I've done a little bit of everything; front page editor, advertising, and now tech. I owe pretty much everything to AVSIM and the people around me. They make me look good, and I try to do the same. :)

 

As for the comments and our reply, I could not agree more. In the words of my former military days, for my fellow AVSIM staffers:

SEMPER FI!

These posts spoke an eloquent reply to many of the points raised in the incident, I was left cold by Carls views on editorial policy, there were a number of times today I saw words to the effect that FSX users " killed " flight, another viewpoint that seems to be a form of intolerance , there were too many in the forums for some time.

 

With Flight or any another platform, game or hobby its beyond ridiculous to bash a game and or its players in public the way I saw with this latest release from MS , it’s akin to racism , or hate mongering but over a game, i thought the lot of us were sitting in front of a computer doing the same thing.

I've been a proud member of AVSIM for more years than I care to remember (LOL, geezz I'm getting old) and have personally met most staff members at some point in time and I consider Tom a personal friend. Statements from these guys, like Mr Anderson, are at times extraordinarily annoying and frankly just a bit over the top with their distorted opinions and their belief that everything, in their mind, is some kind of conspiracy against them.

 

I suppose what is even more frightening, at least to me, is that people like this are actually allowed to vote(?).

 

SpiritFlyer has, quite eloquently I might add, stated the general feeling of all us who have volunteered our time and efforts to the success of AVSIM and every once in awhile individuals like Carl Anderson do pop up. Considering the total number of registered users here at AVSIM, the percentages dictate that there are going to be a small number that act this way. There have been many more like him in the past and frankly I generally feel they are simply not worth the time and effort to respond to, but that changes when these kind of individuals get personal and then simply make up things just, I suppose, to get noticed, I don't know and frankly don't care. My personal response to "Mr Anderson"; don't go away mad, just go away!

 

As far as MS Flight, I really don't have a strong opinion one way or another about it, but Microsoft is a private company that has the option of self-determination and if the product didn't come up to their expectations, they have the right to drop it or not. On the other hand, I may have an opinion about what or how they should have more effectively marketed the product, but unfortunately I don't get paid to make those decisions for them.

 

Back to the subject of Mr Anderson, and others like him, Mr Anderson's comments were seemingly pointed at Tom, but the reality is they were on the whole directed to "all" of us here at AVSIM and as already stated previously, by someone else before me, its time we as a group respond from now on.

 

Reminds me of the line I once announced at a public forum concerning one of our competitors (in the aftermarket oil business I've been in) where I said: "...look, I'll make a deal with you, if you'll promise to stop lying about us, we'll promise to stop telling the truth about you!"

 

Steve (Bear) Cartwright

Avsim, or it's staff have never received a single dollar from MS on behalf of flight, directly or indirectly. Their advertising they placed with us was so screwed up by them that we refunded their money.

This is an extremely generous gesture on the part of Avsim towards Microsoft, and no doubt one that you were not obliged to perform, given the successful display of the banner ads for some weeks on the Avsim forum. Well done.

 

Therefore I am permanently banning those who participated or made a point to actively agree in supporting the posts or statements in question.

This is a surprising step given the vocal outrage (voiced here at Avsim by senior moderators no less) when another private vendors forum banned members for apparently 'speaking their mind'.

 

I have questioned the consistency of moderation across forums here (which of course you can react to as you see fit), but to protest "bannings" on another private vendor's forum, whilst banning members "here" who disagree with the forum operators is somewhat suggestive of ... (insert your choice of word)

 

Simply "agreeing" with someone earns a ban at Avsim? You surprise me.

 

Paradoxically, banning people in this way kind-of refutes the idea of an impartial forum, does it not?

This is an extremely generous gesture on the part of Avsim towards Microsoft

I don't think generosity had anything to do with refunding their money. It was more a case...we can't do business with you under these conditions.

whilst banning members "here" who disagree with the forum operators is somewhat suggestive of ... (insert your choice of word)

Speaking your mind is not the same as making unfounded, libelous accusations.

Paradoxically, banning people in this way kind-of refutes the idea of an impartial forum, does it not?

A forum impartial to vendors is not a forum where anyone someone can attack the character of another.

Well said Stephan.

 

I couldn't believe it when I read the things said about Tom and the rest of the Avsim staff members.

 

It's sad that it has come to this. But I too am fully behind Avsim and the Avsim staff.

 

Lee

 

 

 

 

Sent using Tapatalk

Ive been looking at avsim forums for years now but only recently signed up to be a member and started posting and the forum team have my full support with what they do and the rules they wish to implement as i know the chances are none of them will ever effect me unless i step out of line. Some people do need to remember that the forum admins and mods are here to ensure the smooth running of a very large forum and not to baby sit some of us.

So Microsoft wants to launch a huge ad campaign with AVSIM. Why, we'll we're the #1 fan based flight sim website so we'll get the word out to our millions of readers. They hired a PR firm to run the campaign. This PR firm wanted signed contracts, a raft of agreements and total control over our webpage and how the ads were going to be run. Sorry, not going to happen boys. That's not the way we do things. We are "equal opportunity" space providers for whoever wants to run an ad campaign. You don't have to supply us with product before we'll let you run an ad like some websites. We're here to help you get the word out about your product.

 

We started their campaign under our rules, but this "professional ad company" didn't like the fact that we were in control and tried to take over the "ad functions" again. Thanks, but no thanks....here's your money back. They got a week of free advertising over this mess, so you can see that we were NOT in Microsoft's pocket. We do just fine without their business dollars.

 

 

Robert,

Incredible insight into something that most of us were very unaware of. I'm suprised that I'm the first to point this out. Incredible that they were so out of touch with this community, but not suprising.

This is an extremely generous gesture on the part of Avsim towards Microsoft, and no doubt one that you were not obliged to perform, given the successful display of the banner ads for some weeks on the Avsim forum. Well done.

 

 

This is a surprising step given the vocal outrage (voiced here at Avsim by senior moderators no less) when another private vendors forum banned members for apparently 'speaking their mind'.

 

I have questioned the consistency of moderation across forums here (which of course you can react to as you see fit), but to protest "bannings" on another private vendor's forum, whilst banning members "here" who disagree with the forum operators is somewhat suggestive of ... (insert your choice of word)

 

Simply "agreeing" with someone earns a ban at Avsim? You surprise me.

 

Paradoxically, banning people in this way kind-of refutes the idea of an impartial forum, does it not?

 

HCornea,

 

After having witnessed what happened on YOUR forums not so long ago, your giving lessons in freedom of speech here at AVSIM is ridiculous, and that is the understatement of the year..

AVSIM is not "mostly" volunteers, we are ALL volunteers. I've been with AVSIM for 12 of those 15 years, and I've seen many a volunteer come and go. The dedicated ones stick around.

 

I've read more than my fair share of those who agree to disagree within the forums. I'd say 95% of the participants have voiced their opinions, retorts, agreements, disagreements and personal views with dignaty and respect. But that small minority can't voice their opinions without slander, disrespect and/or ignorance and have to be deleted and/or banned in order for the rest of the forum users to not be subjected to their banter.

 

I try to stay out of the forum arguments unless their is absolute "wrong" information being generated. Words written here can be taken so far out of context that some put their own spin on it and the thread continues from there.

 

With regards to MS Flight, I was invited by Microsoft to attend their "media day" as AVSIM's Reviews Editor. I listened unbiasly to their "sales pitch" and what this product was and what it had to offer. Also in the room were 3rd party developers from various "brand name" companies we are all familiar with. At the end of the presentation I was free to develop my own opinion of the product based on what I had heard.

 

The consensus around the room appeared to be unanimous, this "game" would not fly with the simming public. Microsoft's concept was that this was not for simmers but for the millions of people who wanted the opportunity to experience flying without having to have any knowledge or skills in the cockpit. Afterall, you play/control the game with a mouse.

 

It's free yet you have to buy Microsoft points to purchase add-ons. By the way these add-ons are Microsoft owned so if you're a 3rd party developer, you have no rights over them once Microsoft gets ahold of them. In my opinion,they dissed these 3rd party developers as there's nothing in "Flight" for them.

 

So Microsoft wants to launch a huge ad campaign with AVSIM. Why, we'll we're the #1 fan based flight sim website so we'll get the word out to our millions of readers. They hired a PR firm to run the campaign. This PR firm wanted signed contracts, a raft of agreements and total control over our webpage and how the ads were going to be run. Sorry, not going to happen boys. That's not the way we do things. We are "equal opportunity" space providers for whoever wants to run an ad campaign. You don't have to supply us with product before we'll let you run an ad like some websites. We're here to help you get the word out about your product.

 

We started their campaign under our rules, but this "professional ad company" didn't like the fact that we were in control and tried to take over the "ad functions" again. Thanks, but no thanks....here's your money back. They got a week of free advertising over this mess, so you can see that we were NOT in Microsoft's pocket. We do just fine without their business dollars.

 

So now Flight has come and gone. Let's get on with supporting our 3rd party developers for FS9, FSX and now X-Plane. Let's experience what Prepar3d offers to FSX. Let's try something new with X-Plane. The hobby isn't dead. That's obvious with all of you still hanging out at AVSIM. I'm still loving my time here and will continue supporting both the AVSIM staff and the AVSIM public.

 

You're still free to express your opinions in our forums. But for that 5%, let's keep it civil and try to stay on topic. Remember, opinions are like belly buttons....we all have one.

 

Really??? ROFL. OMG. What a total waste of money. WOW! That just really misses the mark on so many levels.

This is an extremely generous gesture on the part of Avsim towards Microsoft, and no doubt one that you were not obliged to perform, given the successful display of the banner ads for some weeks on the Avsim forum. Well done.

 

 

This is a surprising step given the vocal outrage (voiced here at Avsim by senior moderators no less) when another private vendors forum banned members for apparently 'speaking their mind'.

 

I have questioned the consistency of moderation across forums here (which of course you can react to as you see fit), but to protest "bannings" on another private vendor's forum, whilst banning members "here" who disagree with the forum operators is somewhat suggestive of ... (insert your choice of word)

 

Simply "agreeing" with someone earns a ban at Avsim? You surprise me.

 

Paradoxically, banning people in this way kind-of refutes the idea of an impartial forum, does it not?

Please take your ulterior motives, innuendo and hidden agendas away from us - we will not cater to this and Stephen has our full support for banning the people who attempted to slandered us - and that's exactly what they tried to do.

 

What was said was insulting to Tom and all of us here at AVSIM. After all our work to remain completely neutral and be a place for all FS things minus the bad and rude attitudes and questionable agendas. To insinuate that we are in the pocket of MS or anyone else is disgusting. I think many probably don't fully realise what a hard and stressful job it is to maintain these forums, attempting to cater to everyone and be neutral at all times (many a time we have to grit our teeth and keep our opinions to ourselves).

 

I've been sick the last couple of days but after hearing what's been said on the forums - I had to come and have a say as well. This attack on AVSIM and on Tom is really amongst the worst examples of the attacks and abuse we sometimes suffer. Everything we do here is for free and for all - I really do not understand why some people have to attack us like this, I've seen it all - racist attacks, nasty innuendo, just your plain everyday verbal abuse, etc......

 

My Thanks to Stephen for saying what all of us at AVSIM feel.

Fair Plé Stephen. Avsim has every right to defend their name against such accusation and you have done so with grace.

 

I also volunteer with a charitable organisation in the real world. We don't get paid and donate all our time and efforts for free, (we do charge subscriptions though for things like electricity and heat) but from time there will always be those who will walk along and accuse you of having vested interests, siphoning the funds off for your own personal use and what not, but it's important to remember that these are only a small minority that crop up from time to time, and that, in the end of the day, if you get a satisfaction out of the service you provide and feel that you have benefited the lives of others, then that's all that counts.

 

Long may Avsim be around for us simmers and those yet to pick up the hobby. I may only have been a simmer for 4 or so years now, but even in that short time I can see all the great work you guys do here in educating, helping and connecting the world wide community....

 

Keep up the great work,

Captain Rónán J. O'Cadhain.