Mindyerbreak. I believe I got the refund. Not sure though since it's a new CC and they gave me 18 mos. no interest on purchases and I havent received a statement yet. But the very nice gentleman (the English are so polite aren't they?) said he refunded it.

I think we should be careful with negativity, especially if you have hardly tried the airplane. The first posts kept me from buying it and now that I did buy it, hesitantly, I'm really glad I did. The plane looks fantastic inside an out. It's definitely not a light system model, it takes quite a checklist to start her up, for instance. I'm really enjoying this plane a lot and would recommend it. The last CLS product I bought was their A300/310. They have come a long way.

I purchased the Colorado b90 based on mostly positive comments here in the forums. Well, it took me only a couple of flights to realize that this plane, from the funny vc graphics to the flight models, was not worth the money--for me, at least. On the other hand, I purchased the BAE146 and I would place this plane among the top 10 best add ons, excluding PMDG, which is in a class of by itself.

Moreover, unlike the B90 with which I am stuck, since there's no refund, the BAE146 is guaranteed for 30 days or your money back.

On the Just Flight forums, folks are eager to help, including the company reps.

I have spent a lot of money on bad planes for fsx and fs2004. Clearly on the 146 I got my money's worth.

It's a 90% systems complete plane, it has an autostart for the lazy among us, and the flight model is superb. It flies by the numbers, far more than many other add ons.

For those of us who long for analog guages and old fashioned navigation while flying short routes,the Bae 146 from Just Flight provides it.

Imagine landing this 4 engine beauty at 115 kts!

tc

It flies by the numbers, far more than many other add ons.

Are you sure about that? At least on my computer rudder seems to be doing much nothing even when I turn it to full left or right before I tweaked it myself. And it seemed to bank much more slowly than PMDG 747 for example although its much bigger plane, I wonder if that is realistic. I truly have no idea, other than rudder which obviously has a problem.

We can argue forever talking about what "by the numbers" means. As I stated earlier, PMDG is in a different class, so I rarely compare other add ons to PMDG. By the numbers I simple meant that throttle adjustments reflect pretty good pitch and VS behavior.

Secondly, it's rare that one plane comes out without requiring an upgrade after users have had a chance to fly it---PMDG included. For the first version, I still think that the model is excellent.

tc

Ah ok, I do agree that pitch and throttle seem to work just like they are supposed to.

 

Indeed excellent release, doesn't even have loads of CTDs or other really serious bugs like many others have lately had.

I concur with FScamps' opinions regarding the poor aileron and rudder effectiveness.

 

I actually find the aircraft to be tad pitch sensitive, but that may be how it is in the real world. The poor rudder and aileron control though I highly doubt. I talked to some local aviation compatriots at work here who are experienced with the 146, and they stated that aileron response was very good, a product of very effective roll spoilers. Rudder response was also described to me as good as well, as the aircraft has an unusually large rudder.This was explained to me as a result of the aircraft anhedral wings, which required a very effective rudder for stability. That and the 4 engine configuration required quick and effective rudder authority for certification.

 

Systems are there, but they may not work exactly how they should. Visually, if you played with the systems, things sort of operate the way the should. I've kind of broke down my observations down to a list for those interested and one that i'll probably copy/paste to send to Just Flight so they can hopefully fix some things . I know one should not expect super-systems fidelity, but I belive there is some basic flaws here if they are going to call this a 'step above' CLS' typical offerings.

 

Hydraulically powered flight surfaces don't operate without the engines running, even if AC/DC pumps and PTU are operating. Some avionics (HSI, ADI, COM/Nav radios) will not operate either without the engines running, despite any external or APU AC source and selection of avionics master on the top overhead.

AC Gens, (engines, APU, and external AC), and standby inv. all are shown as running at ~125-130 VAC, and 400Hz, when they should be set at ~115 VAC and 400 Hz. In the real aircraft, you may see the APU gen read a little high freq. without a load, but you wouldn't dare close the APU gen to the AC bus with 130 VAC.

DC Bus' and TRU's show around 32 Volts DC. Once again you should see only around 28VAC, especially with the Transformer Rectifiers.

Autopilot wobbles a bit pitch-wise with lighter gross weights at cruise speeds and altitudes.

Cockpit Fan sound is only audible with Packs On, when i'm pretty sure it is actually just an electric blower that operates off the #2 DC bus.

It would be nice if the APU sound/rumble kind of continued when operating rather than fade away. Same with some sound with the Packs operating as well.

 

The autopilot seems to work as advertised, IAS hold and stuff works good. The F-Lite FMC is a bit lacking for me, so I'm hoping to incorporate the ISG GNS-XLS or something into it in the future.

And it seemed to bank much more slowly than PMDG 747 for example although its much bigger plane, I wonder if that is realistic. I truly have no idea, other than rudder which obviously has a problem.

 

There is no point comparing a 146 and a 747, none at all. A 747 is a Ferrari of the skies.

I bought the JF 146 a few days ago; in spite of the negative comments I've read, I've quite enjoyed flying it. The VC is better than I expected as well.

 

Concerning the sluggishness of the rudder (which I see also), I'm wondering if the effectiveness of the rudder is affected by the yaw damper setting. I've only flown with the yaw dampers on; has anyone tried turning them off to see how responsive the rudder is?

 

Speaking of which ... what is the practice in the real world concerning the yaw dampers?

I bought the JF 146 a few days ago; in spite of the negative comments I've read, I've quite enjoyed flying it. The VC is better than I expected as well.

 

Concerning the sluggishness of the rudder (which I see also), I'm wondering if the effectiveness of the rudder is affected by the yaw damper setting. I've only flown with the yaw dampers on; has anyone tried turning them off to see how responsive the rudder is?

 

Speaking of which ... what is the practice in the real world concerning the yaw dampers?

 

Yaw damper turns on with autopilot and should be disengaged on approach and landing from what I know. It may very well be that it affects rudder authority.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

 

Dirk.

I concur with FScamps' opinions regarding the poor aileron and rudder effectiveness.

 

I actually find the aircraft to be tad pitch sensitive, but that may be how it is in the real world. The poor rudder and aileron control though I highly doubt. I talked to some local aviation compatriots at work here who are experienced with the 146, and they stated that aileron response was very good, a product of very effective roll spoilers. Rudder response was also described to me as good as well, as the aircraft has an unusually large rudder.This was explained to me as a result of the aircraft anhedral wings, which required a very effective rudder for stability. That and the 4 engine configuration required quick and effective rudder authority for certification.

 

Systems are there, but they may not work exactly how they should. Visually, if you played with the systems, things sort of operate the way the should. I've kind of broke down my observations down to a list for those interested and one that i'll probably copy/paste to send to Just Flight so they can hopefully fix some things . I know one should not expect super-systems fidelity, but I belive there is some basic flaws here if they are going to call this a 'step above' CLS' typical offerings.

 

Hydraulically powered flight surfaces don't operate without the engines running, even if AC/DC pumps and PTU are operating. Some avionics (HSI, ADI, COM/Nav radios) will not operate either without the engines running, despite any external or APU AC source and selection of avionics master on the top overhead.

AC Gens, (engines, APU, and external AC), and standby inv. all are shown as running at ~125-130 VAC, and 400Hz, when they should be set at ~115 VAC and 400 Hz. In the real aircraft, you may see the APU gen read a little high freq. without a load, but you wouldn't dare close the APU gen to the AC bus with 130 VAC.

DC Bus' and TRU's show around 32 Volts DC. Once again you should see only around 28VAC, especially with the Transformer Rectifiers.

Autopilot wobbles a bit pitch-wise with lighter gross weights at cruise speeds and altitudes.

Cockpit Fan sound is only audible with Packs On, when i'm pretty sure it is actually just an electric blower that operates off the #2 DC bus.

It would be nice if the APU sound/rumble kind of continued when operating rather than fade away. Same with some sound with the Packs operating as well.

 

The autopilot seems to work as advertised, IAS hold and stuff works good. The F-Lite FMC is a bit lacking for me, so I'm hoping to incorporate the ISG GNS-XLS or something into it in the future.

Your criticisms show that this 146 is indeed lite. Two points though. First, the 146 has manual flight controls, so lack of hydraulic pressure will not stop them moving. Secondly hydraulically powered controls move if there's enough pressure. It doesn't matter what is supplying the pressure, whether it is engine driven pumps, electric pumps or a RAT.

Yaw damper turns on with autopilot and should be disengaged on approach and landing from what I know. It may very well be that it affects rudder authority.

 

Cheers,

Dirk.

 

Dirk.

I used rudder with autopilot off and made sure from outside view that it actually did turn to its max left/right position, however still it had no effect until I tweaked it myself from aircraft.cfg.

Two points though. First, the 146 has manual flight controls, so lack of hydraulic pressure will not stop them moving. Secondly hydraulically powered controls move if there's enough pressure. It doesn't matter what is supplying the pressure, whether it is engine driven pumps, electric pumps or a RAT.

 

I recognize the 146 has 'manual' flight controls, noticed I said "flight surfaces" . The roll spoilers, rudder, flaps and lift spoilers all operate off the Yellow system, with the landing gear, nosewheel steering, and speed brake operating off the Green system. What I ment by my comment was with engines off, and the AC+DC Yellow pumps on, the PTU on (brings pressure to the Green side), those surfaces did not operate. Strangely, the ailerons will not operate either without the engines running. They are dropped downwards which is strange.

 

Another thing now I remember is the hydraulic systems seem to be operating at 3500 psi, rather then the actual 3000 psi.

 

This is my first foray into these lite type products so it's a bit difficult for me to gauge my expectations, but I will say i'm not dissapointed with it.

 

The external model is supurb, with the VC pretty good. A true 3D HSI/ADI would have been nice, along with the engine gauges, but it's still workable. I havn't touched the 2D panel so I can't comment on that.

 

Yes it is 'lite', but visually, all the switches and systems work, so it's still a decent simulation. I havn't tried the QW Avro Rj's yet (waiting for FSX version) but from what I gleam from the QW forums and around here, that product seems to be just a little step above functionality wise than this CLS/Just Flight offering. I've been hoping for a decent 146 adaptation for a long time, so anything is better than nothing!

 

 

EDIT: I just booted up and found that the spoilers and speedbrake seems to function regardless if hydrualic pressure is availible or not. Noted!

Patrick, I owe you an apology as I misread what you said. My only excuse is that I was reading the thread on Tapatalk!

 

I have the QW Avro RJ installed and it's far from lite (though a lite option is available). There are a couple of systems missing, but what is included is complete, if not to PMDG levels. Ironically it was the QW forums that convinced me to buy it as it was clearly not meant to be a lite product at all, unlike the QW 757. If the QW RJ/146 sim didn't exist I'd probably buy the JF 146, lite or not, as I'm a 146 enthusiast. However the lack of a functioning TMS would be a big disappointment. It's fundamental to aircraft operation and a unique characteristic of the aircraft. Even the freeware BAE panel project 146 had a working version.

 

The main issue for me with "lite" sims is whether they use the default MSFS autopilot or a custom one. I can forgive most other things, but the default autopilot is not just lite, it's totally unrealistic. Also how realistic the engine starts are, i.e. whether they used the dreadful default MSFS jet engine simulation or not. Another test is whether the engines start with fuel boost pumps off (they should, but many "by the checklist" sims don't). Yes you should put the pumps on, but if you forget the engines should still start.

Yes, I agree that the non functional TMS is quite a disappointment. It is essential for reproducing a flight.

 

Jos