Horrible! So sad! RIP!

Same feeling. Same thought for the crew.

Bruno

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm no weight and balance specialist, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the 747 is a big airplane, so it would require a large quantity of cargo or a very heavy one to change its position in order to catastrophicaly shift the CG and crash the airplane. Perhaps, during a stall recovery attempt at a higher altitude, the cargo could have shifted back forward putting the airplane in an unrecoverable nose dive. If the crew managed to regain control of the airplane, the cargo could start hitting the fuselage walls and eventually damage them or open a hole somewhere, causing even more problems.

 

That's all speculation, though. All we can do now is wish that the crew can rest in peace, wait for the investigation results and try to learn a new lesson from this accident.

 

 

They were too slow to ever regain control based on that video, they were at takeoff speed, where elevator authority is at its lowest, had something like this happened at a higher speed they may have had a chance, but just after rotation they would have been way too low on energy to recover I believe.

 

Regards,

Ró.

They were also carrying 5 MRAP's apparently, I think someone else may have mentioned that here earlier.  An MRAP without Turret (to accommodate 747 loading) is ~ 23,000 pounds per vehicle!  Each one takes 26 straps to secure.  If 1 or more of those shift there is no way to adjust at the altitude, attitude and speed they were travelling like Ro pointed out.  Do the loadmasters work for the base or the cargo companies individually?  Who is responsible for securing those 26 straps per vehicle?

They were also carrying 5 MRAP's apparently, I think someone else may have mentioned that here earlier.  An MRAP without Turret (to accommodate 747 loading) is ~ 23,000 pounds per vehicle!  Each one takes 26 straps to secure.  If 1 or more of those shift there is no way to adjust at the altitude, attitude and speed they were travelling like Ro pointed out.  Do the loadmasters work for the base or the cargo companies individually?  Who is responsible for securing those 26 straps per vehicle?

From what I've heard the load master worked for the company and was was one of the victims.

 

Regards,

Ró.

From what I've heard the load master worked for the company and was was one of the victims.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Unfortunate they may not even have anyone to speak to on the ground.  Obviously, even more unfortunate when a mistake at works costs you and your co-workers your lives.  It just shows how little the margin for error is in all aspects of aviation.  

It was a sad surprise I started my day with. Actually you can see how the crew tried to correct the roll just before impact, very hard to feel what they felt in that cockpit.

 

Our prayers to their families,

 

RIP...

 

 

load master worked for the company

Ro, just out of interest, would that load-master have been solely responsible for securing his aircraft's load, or would be have been delegating/supervising a team to carry out the loading and securing?

Ro, just out of interest, would that load-master have been solely responsible for securing his aircraft's load, or would be have been delegating/supervising a team to carry out the loading and securing?

 

Load master supervises the loading and ensures that there's the optimum distribution of weight, he'll be in charge of a team but he'll have done all the calculations in the office himself before hand, he'll know the type of goods, any special measures for handling them, if they're dangerous goods etc.

 

Most the time he'll trust his team to properly secure the cargo, but if he's not familiar with the crew he's working with he'll typically make sure their work is to a high enough standard. I'd imagine in a freight aircraft it'd be more likely that he'd personally inspect the loaded cargo. I mean as mentioned above, the MRAPS are close to 15 tonnes each, so no one man can move them, it takes a team.

 

Regards,

Ró.

Thanks for that insight, Ro. Still, what tragic, sad,sad loss of lives, etc. May God be with them and their families.

Or the locks or other tie downs busted off from being faulty. Who knows. Seems unlikely. Ive loaded alot of 744s back in the day, and there is plenty of redundancy in place if one breaks. So seems something else may have happened. 

Maybe sabotage. Lots of questions. Thats an extreme pitch up. 

 

That pitch up is normal. It's called a combat take-off for a reason.

 

I highly doubt sabotage, and I'm guessing a severe CoG shift due to the loadmaster not doing his ######ing job. There were MRAP's on that aircraft, and they typically weigh in excess of around 30,000 pounds, depending on the manufacturer. If the braces and tie-downs on the roller pallets came loose, your looking at extreme shifts in weight balance fore, aft, or along one of the bulkheads.

On the last frames before the impact I believe you can see a dash of light coming through the cockpit window and I just couldn't stop thinking that there were people in there who, at that point, probably had realized what their fate was, and a second later you see the crash and you know those people have just died.

 

Absolutely horrible. I can't even begin to process through my head what the crew felt or thought in those final seconds. Scariest thing ever! That video is difficult to watch knowing that it's not hollywood, but real life. 

Accident:

 

At the time of the crash the airline had been operating between Bagram and Dubai for a month. The aircraft had taken off on runway 03 at 15:30 Afghanistan time (11:00 am UTC) and was climbing through 1,200 feet (370 m) when the nose of the aircraft rose sharply. A crew member was heard on VHF air-band radio reporting that some of the load of five heavy military vehicles in the cargo hold had shifted; the aircraft then stalled and crashed. The crash site is off the end of runway 03, within the perimeter of the airfield. All seven crew, all of whom were U.S. citizens, died: four pilots, two mechanics and a loadmaster.

Although Taliban spokesmen claimed responsibility for the destruction of the aircraft, reports based on communications from the crew after takeoff indicate that the crash resulted from a catastrophic load shift, which caused the aircraft to experience a high-aft center of gravity condition, become unstable, stall and crash. A car driver in the vicinity of the runway end recorded the stall and the crash; the video is available online.

 

Investigation:

 

The National Transportation Safety Board and the Afghanistan Civil Aviation Authority are investigating the crash. Richard Quest of CNN said that while the investigation will be hosted by the Afghan authorities, the expertise will come from the NTSB and possibly investigation authorities from Europe.

That pitch up is normal. It's called a combat take-off for a reason.

That is not used for 747 take offs. 747 use standard NADP 1 at Bagram

That is not used for 747 take offs. 747 use standard NADP 1 at Bagram

 

There is no such thing as a standard departure (NADP) at any airport in Afghanistan or previously Iraq. The decisions made for the aircraft in question, whatever it may be, are not determined by ATC or the PFL. How a aircraft departs a combat zone like Bagram, Kandahar, and the like, are made by the RCC or Regional Command Center (ex. RC-South), CSTC-A, and the JCTOC. The type of takeoffs change on a hourly basis depending upon threat catagory in the AOR.

 

And yes, it is used for 747 take-offs. It is infact utilized for a great deal of takeoffs by non-military avaition assets in combat zones. I departed Iraq in 2010 on a 777 (World Airways) from Al Asad Airbase, in which the aircraft conducted a combat-takeoff. Just FYI.

 

 

and I'm guessing a severe CoG shift due to the loadmaster not doing his ######ing job

 

how do you know  that he didn't  do his  job,  ever heard of some unfortunate that something  gave  way or something similar  which was out of  his  control.  Think you need to wait  for  the actual facts  before you start blaming the load master

You don't seriously expect everyone here to wait for the facts?