A proposal for PMDG, in case they're not doing it already!

[Kattz 132]

But one would be lying.

In your opinion, with respect. There are simmers who love that thing. Not me. Obviously not you.

 

I am disappointed in my purchase. I think someone else could do a better job. Again, my opinion. Why not PMDG?

From what I understand, PMDG will be eventually making an EFB (once licensing issues are resolved) but it will only be compatible with their own products, so not exactly stand-alone as you suggest. I think making an EFB that's completely stand-alone could potentially be better for simmers, not necessarily for PMDG as a business.

 

Thanks for that. I was not aware and appreciate your heads-up.

 

Best,

 

Kev

Kev,

 

While the idea of a fully functional and external EFB is good in theory. PMDG has a knack for an unprecedented level of realism in all of their products. The problems involved with a fully functional EFB (mainly licensing data from my understanding) is the main reason it won't be included in the T7. (Also not standard on all T7)

 

I'm sure someone can either quote or post a link to the previous PMDG remarks about the limitations of an accurately modeled EFB.

 

 

Happy Flying,

 

Nathan

Thanks, Nathan. I didn't see that discussion during my search.

 

Kev

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Personally, if you look at today's avionics as well as EFBs, IPAD utilities for maintenance, etc., they're all custom and specific to that aircraft or customers needs.

 

Having said that...an EFB for the simming world would NOT detract from realism because it could be made for simming the simming needs.  VATSIM, charts (navdata, etc.), or whatever else you wanted and able to interface with the other utilities out there.  And it could be claimed that it is REAL for our needs and not needed to be real to a real airline's or manufacturers' specific pages in that EFB.

 

In other words, if PMDG did an EFB it would only need to be real for their product and be based loosely on a particular real world counterpart, and would technically be considered as real as it would need to be.

 

I don't know if that makes any sense and obviously given the caveats of developing such a product would be a pretty large undertaking. 

 

I think we're at the point where we can claim flight simming can be just as real as real world simming or what you would do at a particular airline in some cases.  Lets face it, it's all about information flow rather than standard six pack flying with a flight engineer. 

 

I think life is starting to imitate art now versus the other way around.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

It was just an idea...

 

...and a decent one at that.

 

Sorry if my post came across gruff.  As usual, thinking outside of the box is one of your strong points.  Hopefully, as I mentioned in my earlier post, some breakthrough will make all the data easier to get to.

[UAE77L 153]

I don't want an EFB since I have a Nexus 10 tablet for viewing charts. A performance calculator? It's great but not necessary now. Why do I say that? Because we'll likely have to wait longer to get our hands on the 777.

 

To round things up, I would love to have a performance calculator BUT not now! I want my 777 ASAP!!!

[VHOJT 160]

Get an iPad or similar and put your charts etc. on it and you've pretty much got one.  Now if only TOPCAT would work on a tablet of some sort!!

 

Cheers,

Rudy

[rsrandazzo 6,353]

Gents-

 

Whether an EFB is stand alone or integrated into our existing product lines doesn't change the cost equation at all.

 

The major pieces of functionality inside an EFB require access to chart data.  Charts cost money...  Something to the tune of $1,200/year per device for large airlines....

 

At that cost level it isn't directly feasible unless/until we find another alternative.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Gents-

 

Whether an EFB is stand alone or integrated into our existing product lines doesn't change the cost equation at all.

 

The major pieces of functionality inside an EFB require access to chart data.  Charts cost money...  Something to the tune of $1,200/year per device for large airlines....

 

At that cost level it isn't directly feasible unless/until we find another alternative.

To be honest, the charts would be the least important feature for me.  Most of them can be found through the individual country's web sites.  It's tempting to want to use Jepps all the time, but who can justify the cost for the simming world, even though it's pretty close for most people to probably want to do it..

 

I think the more important features would be the performance and flight planning data that can be inputted from the EFB to the FMC.

 

I'm guessing you guys have 90-99% of the data you would need for most of those features as you've essentially created or recreated Boeing itself...lol.  Minus that nasty 2% that would probably take 98% more time to make...hehe.

 

Anyways, just thinking. 

[Noble. 142]

Gents-

 

Whether an EFB is stand alone or integrated into our existing product lines doesn't change the cost equation at all.

 

The major pieces of functionality inside an EFB require access to chart data.  Charts cost money...  Something to the tune of $1,200/year per device for large airlines....

 

At that cost level it isn't directly feasible unless/until we find another alternative.

 

As the person above said, I don't think the actual chart data is the most important aspect of an integrated EFB. I'd be more than content with some kind of software (built into the load/livery manager) which can process PDFs and various image files into a format that will load on the EFB - so we can then just find charts online or stick in the briefing created by PFPX (even if this is somewhat unconventional and unrealistic). 

[Fabo 213]

 

 

Now if only TOPCAT would work on a tablet of some sort!!

 

It should work in x86 architecture Windows tablets. Those are more expensive though as they are more or less proper laptop replacements.

 

 

 

It's tempting to want to use Jepps all the time,

Personally, I don't care that much for Jepps, I very much prefer LIDO. I do think though that if PMDG ever gets a solid enough deal, it is more likely it will be with Jeppesen, what with it being a Boeing company and all...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

I ONLY KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHAT EFBs ARE AND DO, BUT I WANT ONE!!!

 

 

 

...seriously.  If I were part PMDG, I'm sure I'd take all of this as a compliment related to the quality of work done, but there's a separation of work in the world for a reason: specialization.  PMDG has the planes, and a few cursory related applications (options/load manager/livery manager) as their specialty.  TOPCAT and those kinds have performance data calculations.

 

The purpose of the EFB concept is to minimize the amount of paper carried by crews, make pushing and managing that paper easier, and add the ability to run computer-type activities.

-You're sitting at a computer, so carrying vast amounts of paper through miles of terminal really isn't an issue (even if you're still in the dark ages of printing - no offense meant, to each their own.)

-The PMDG plane you bought has PDF manuals, and even if you have the printed version, you're not having to lug it around.

-TOPCAT exists, so you can run performance calculations there.

 

I still don't really see why so many people are so obsessed with computer ports of EFBs.

 

Please [developer] - I really want a computer version of the technology that was made to be a mini version of a computer for portability (or in the case of mounted EFBs, mountability and minimal weight), to put on my computer!!!

[luscombeguy 4]

FS Kneeboard2 has everything I need to fly the NGX, STARS, SIDS, Terminal maps and approaches. (on my Ipad). Admittedly only for the U.S.

[metalmike 34]

I'll have to agree with Kyle on this. I don't see a need for one, especially if you have an iPad, laptop, or other similar device that you can already use to display everything an EFB would. Plus, if they actually did happen to implement it, it might come with some performance costs.

 

Though just an idea - that wouldn't require a chart subscription...it could be the users responsibility to somehow drop the desired chart files in a folder that gets read by the EFB.

[Tangolima 15]

Print your approach plates etc from Navigraph then make yourself (by cutting down a clipboard!)one of those things  and stick it on the front of your yoke then clip everything you need on it. Now that's reality for you 

Its actually a lot more interesting that way if you ask me B) and zero hit on your FR's

[Kattz 132]

There seems to be a little confusion as to what I'm looking for -   I guess that to different people, an EFB means different things.

 

In my A-------t product, I often find that the airport layouts, SIDS, STARS, and other things are incorrect.  And I admit that I may be a complete idiot, but there are no hi-alt jetways in the EFB that I can find. 

 

Note - fictional route data follows, but let's say that I want to fly KCVG to KSAT.

So:

KCVG, depart the 04L on TRASK SID to WENDY, J44 to ARSK, J381 to BEER, RUSL13 STAR to 27L via TANBY.

 

All of the above is fictional, so get off me!

 

TOPCAT can handle fuel numbers.

 

Here's ALL I want my EFB to do:

 

Plot the route with high alt jetways included, and my divert per my spec, save it as a .rte, and I can load KCVGKSAT into the CO ROUTE page on my FMC, load the fuel, takeoff, thrust, and active RW, and go.  My current EFB does most of this, but with many errors, especially when compared to TOPCAT.

 

Therefore, I use TOPCAT, routefinder, flightaware, and two products that I got off of various paid software sites, one is FSCommander and I can't remember the name of the other one.  I'm on a laptop 300 miles from my PC, and the name eludes me.  However, both work great and are well worth the 30-40 bucks that they cost.  Updated easily with Navigraph, as are my PMDG aircraft and the EFB.  I can't remember the name of the site, but I also download and pay for charts as well.

 

I don't want to have to play with my FMC as much as I have to, even though my FMC is a 10" touchscreen that I just window the FMC into and it looks and works great.

 

I'm disappointed becaise the EFB product I have doesn't work well, at least for me and for US flights.  Now, If I want to fly out of Shiphol to Rome, or Madrid to Munich, it works better.  Still no hi-alt jetways that I can find.

 

What I would like to see is the route, winds, and fuel plotted fully and completely with data that matches the FMC and Navigraph, kinda like the form and the functionality of TOPCAT, FSCommander,and others married into one.  I don't need the Jeppesen charts.  They are out there for free if one needs them and they are free to view and download legally.  They might be a year old...  I never wanted PMDG or others to enter into an expensive agreement with Jepp or another company just to possibly lose $ for REAL printed charts, just something that could be plotted, plugged in, and go.  FS Commander and FSBuild (now I remember!) work great for me for this.

 

This is all I'm asking for.  I CAN do it by hand, just would like to save some time because I don't get much idle time to fly.

 

I appreciate Robert R. adding to the conversation.

 

I think many reading this are thinking that I'm looking for more than I really am.  I'm not looking for the REAL EFB, just a product that works well for our sim without having to use three or four products at once.  I fully understand the financial constraints of reproducing the REAL ACTUAL EFB.  I have FS Kneeboard.  It works well.  If I could drop that info into the FMC it would be a step above.

 

Kev

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Here's ALL I want my EFB to do:
 
Plot the route with high alt jetways included, and my divert per my spec, save it as a .rte, and I can load KCVGKSAT into the CO ROUTE page on my FMC, load the fuel, takeoff, thrust, and active RW, and go.  My current EFB does most of this, but with many errors, especially when compared to TOPCAT.

 

That's not an EFB.  That's a dispatch station.  Granted, your smaller GA-use EFB apps do have limited route finding/analyzing (based off of FAA prefroutes and real world filings), but they're not going to do what a lot of people assume.

 

EFBs - electronic flight bags - are meant to take care of the major pilot functions.  Charting and charting updates are at the top of that.  Next comes performance calculations such as the types of calculations that the pilot would perform on their whiz wheel.  These calculations are not going to be full out dispatch-type fuel and performance calcs.  Weight and balance, and takeoff and landing performance calcs are likely what it tops out at.  Rudimentary fuel burn is probably in there, too, but again, not to the level a lot here would probably assume.

 

EFBs are for pilots.

 

Intense route planning where it calculates optimal routes, optimal fuel burn for weight and altitude, and so on are dispatch functions.  Dispatch functions are carried out at a desk.  Not on a tablet.

 

 

 

What I would like to see is the route, winds, and fuel plotted fully and completely with data that matches the FMC and Navigraph, kinda like the form and the functionality of TOPCAT, FSCommander,and others married into one. 

 

...which is where PFPX comes in.  None of those functions are traditional EFB functions at the level you're asking for.

 

I do see that you note later on that "I'm not looking for the REAL EFB, just a product that works well for our sim without having to use three or four products at once," but I want to be very clear (more for everyone else than for you), that this should not be referred to as an EFB.

 

Come up with some other name, but EFB isn't it.

Simmers already have a hard enough time trying to figure out what an EFB actually does...

(Much less what the pilot does when attempting to put a plane on the ground.)