I cannot speak too much about other countries, but as to the US...I am 45, and have a son who is a junior in a well regarded suburban public high school, as well as 9th grade and 8th grade daughters. My son has had nothing less than an a- since 5th grade, and has had nothing less than an A all thorough high school. (Had to brag a little, but there is a point). I suspect his math and science education is comparable to anywhere in the world - he's taken classes early on that I took in college. Where education is lacking, imo, is in history, particularly our own. It's this moral relativistic, politically correct BS. And there's little emphasis on history's importance. Couple that with a media that cares more about the size of a movie star's bum than it does world events, and I believe we are creating a generation of culturally illiterate and politically naive youth. They believe they are living "at the end" of history, as opposed to part of it, and the things that happened more than 20 years ago have no bearing on what is, or will, happen.

 

 

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Exactly how I look at it. It kind of frightens me, really. 

 

Sometimes I wonder if people realize just how complex the universe is. I am an astronomy geek, I always wonder if anyone looks up and realizes the scale of the space that we live in. I really wish we had that drive for space exploration we had back in the 60's and 70's.

 

We have other things taking up the budget, like wars and-(*BLEEEEEEEPP*) flame war protection 

 

Thank goodness for commercial space exploration, hopefully we can get some humans up there soon, and from U.S. soil.

 

Thank goodness for commercial space exploration, hopefully we can get some humans up there soon, and from U.S. soil.

 

I agree, but why from US soil? ...... You made a fantastic point about the Universe, scale and perspective, but then closed with words to the effect of and preferably from my little part of the universe   :smile:

 

Would it not be good if say the Chinese or Japanese made some fantastic astronomical breakthroughs, or the Indian's got a man on the moon?

 

Until we lose the shackles of obsession with our 'national state' (an artificial boundary if ever there was one), we can't really preach 'Universalism'.

 

Please don't take this challenge personally or offensively - I'm part way through an English Literature degree and my current mindset is 'programmed' to challenge these sorts of views      - of course all of my views are equally challengeable too. :smile:

I agree, but why from US soil? ...... You made a fantastic point about the Universe, scale and perspective, but then closed with words to the effect of and preferably from my little part of the universe   :smile:

 

Would it not be good if say the Chinese or Japanese made some fantastic astronomical breakthroughs, or the Indian's got a man on the moon?

 

Until we lose the shackles of obsession with our 'national state' (an artificial boundary if ever there was one), we can't really preach 'Universalism'.

 

Please don't take this challenge personally or offensively - I'm part way through an English Literature degree and my current mindset is 'programmed' to challenge these sorts of views      - of course all of my views are equally challengeable too. :smile:

Dave- I love the idea of more countries getting into space! What I don't like is the lack of funding to NASA and the overall drive to explore has died down.

 

I think the only way the U.S. get that mindset is if there was suddenly a race to Mars! let's say Japan or Russia again wanted to be first on Mars. THIS will get the U.S.' attention to take action, and hire some researchers and factory workers, and get a spacecraft and launcher ready and fast, (The Orion spacecraft is taking forever) to get to Mars first. (Your'e making jobs!) You think the U.S. will allow someone else to be first on Mars? Yeah right.

Yes agree, certainly in the UK, cheap reality TV that sensationalizes bad behaviour, and the narcisstic 'z list' celebs, such poor role models most of them, are destroying any sense of good morals and ethics.....   Just watch BBC3 on an evening...... (or rather don't if you value your time on this planet)...

 

 

Hence the number of UK TV Production companies that are producing those mindless 'reality' shows fpr Discovery, like "Gold Morons Alaska", "Amish Wiseguys"

and "Airplane Repo Guys".

 

Looks like the TV heads in the UK are running out of material, so they come to the US to look for the next "Mindless TV Star"!

 

Sometimes I wonder if people realize just how complex the universe is. I am an astronomy geek, I always wonder if anyone looks up and realizes the scale of the space that we live in.

Well, make them become amazed too. Spread your passion, not your anger about them not following. By doing so, you are becoming the best teacher available. :smile:

 

Thank goodness for commercial space exploration

Thesis. The commercial space 'exploration' is aimed at running a business in the first place. It's a sign that the primary driver of the noble goal is either dead or close to. I'm in awe about everything Space X or Virgin Galactic performs, but there can be no doubt about their target. Commercialize space.

 

Second thesis. The state of the current education is influenced by the same forces. You can see it in every (educational) field, not only school systems. Get them in early and out fast. Let them know what they need to know and spare the rest. They need to work.

 

Lean processes, optimized methods. This doesn't necessarily mean that the education is bad, but just very focused on the job. 'Studium generale' anyone?

Looks like the TV heads in the UK are running out of material, so they come to the US to look for the next "Mindless TV Star"!

A friend of mine recently said that one of the most valuable gifts a modern citizen can make another one is to.. break his TV. :mellow: Viewers lead stations to produce things people 'want to see.'

 

Note. We don't have a TV.

Indeed all the trash mass entertainment and useless celebrities the media is full of surely has a bad effect on today's youth too, many people just seem to care about totally useless stuff like that instead of things that truly matter such as politics and useful knowledge in general. 

 

I really never watch TV nowadays (other than some random soap operas I sometimes watch just to remind myself how bad they are), I don't own Facebook and I block majority of advertises with Adblock... I think I'm doing quite fine avoiding the brain rottening media trash. 

Old news but still, I give up on my generation....  How can people not be interested in history I dig through mud and endure mass attacks of insects to recover Paleo Indian artifacts to learn about their culture but most won't even watch a TV program about history.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1577511/Winston-Churchill-didnt-really-exist-say-teens.html

 

      I am not sure what generation you are taking about, but your title just wanted me to say SHUT UP! 

 

 

      I am not sure what generation you are taking about, but your title just wanted me to say SHUT UP! 

 

What's wrong with telling the truth? 

Although I value your input, FScamp, 'truth' shouldn't be defined by anecdotal references only. The TV you've blamed a post before your current one does that all the time. And leaves it like that. :mellow:

 

I agree with Howell's post not delivering anything though. I actually wonder why one would react to it. If he would state why the OP should shut up or why he is wrong, it would be better and more constructive.

      I am not sure what generation you are taking about, but your title just wanted me to say SHUT UP! 

Wow we are discussing a major worldwide social issue and this is your contribution????  There is an old saying. "That its better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

I think people might be educated in certain areas more than others, for example someone might not know when WWII ended but they will see any math equation as a piece of cake and turn into a brilliant engineer.

My wife teaches German classes at University to exchange students and she and her colleagues feel that it gets more difficult each year to motivate students to learn. While a couple of years back they didn't read a lot they at least looked up stuff in the web.

 

These days it seems students expect to be taught everything in class because they don"t even bother to look up stuff in the web anymore when doing homework!

 

Note that these students come from lots of countries.

 

The idea of expanding what you learn in class by reading up on it seems to have been lost somewhere on the way.

 

Of course you can"t really get an education or learn to think properly like that, you inevitably end up thinking in what I call "blurbs" - knowledge snippets.

 

I myself work in an astrophyical research environment most of the time and it is getting more difficult to get young people for PhDs and post-grad work because standards are indeed dropping.

 

Of course there are still brilliant young people about but they sometimes lack the discipline to work in science and also sometimes have a lack of general knowledge beyond their specialist field.

 

I was quite baffled when I recently had a discussion with a young Phd student which illustrates the different approach in thinking very well:

 

This was actually a trivial topic - we were discussing where to put the like and share buttons on our new web pages.

 

While I thought it was very natural to have them below each article on the grounds that you only share and like stuff you have read yourself, he thought the best place was at the top of the page because he would press the button right away on the basis of "this looks cool" and would not bother to read the item first.

 

After this discussion I am not surprised about any dumb stuff anymore!

 

Note that I do not feel that people are less intelligent, they just don"t seem to get taught the basics of learning and thinking in some schools anymore.

 

Sascha

I went digging back in my late father's archives of trivia, and found his report cards from 7th grade up through 12th grade back in the early 1930's. He was born in Olympia, Washington and as you can imagine it was a fairly rural -dare I say rustic- part of the US at that time.

 

What strikes my attention about them are the classes that students were taught. Can you believe four years of Latin, two years of Civics, two years of Composition, six years of Citizenship and U.S. History, six years of math from Arithmetic through Calculus...

 

...and six continuous years of "Perfect Attendance." Wow!

 

I wish that I'd seen these back when he was bugging me about my grades though, as I see he made a few "D's" himself!

The question of public history, or historical memory is an interesting one.  Each culture has its own incentive to protect it, as we know that culture is learned.  Unfortunately it appears to me that the current trends in academia to marginalize culture as "cultural imperialism", "ethno-centrism", and to conduct post-modern, post-colonial criticism will be defeating of the notion of culture.

 

scott s.

.

I went digging back in my late father's archives of trivia, and found his report cards from 7th grade up through 12th grade back in the early 1930's. He was born in Olympia, Washington and as you can imagine it was a fairly rural -dare I say rustic- part of the US at that time.

 

What strikes my attention about them are the classes that students were taught. Can you believe four years of Latin, two years of Civics, two years of Composition, six years of Citizenship and U.S. History, six years of math from Arithmetic through Calculus...

 

...and six continuous years of "Perfect Attendance." Wow!

 

I wish that I'd seen these back when he was bugging me about my grades though, as I see he made a few "D's" himself!

This was back in the days when teachers had the 'board' of education. Students didn't dare step out of line back then.

 

 

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