Considering one of the major complaints about X-Plane seems to be urban detail and the quality of the weather, I'd say you're about as far from the mark as it's possible to be Jack.

Well let me state that I will NEVER EVER under any circumstances purchase ANYTHING from the .org under the current management. I was called a troll told I was unwelcome then subsequently suspended by Nicolas himself. For what?  I didn't like their support policy of sending emails to people with updates (Emails change etc.) keeping up with a ton of products in this fashion is ludicrous given the volume of mail I receive. I asked why they didn't post their download links to a server so I can go get them when convenient for me like a well know site I bought my FSX add-ons from and made the mistake of naming the site. (First Ban)  Then I asked a developer who had previously distributed through Aerosoft at the same site if they would be doing the same with a new release that was about to be fielded...(second ban with taunt)  What's rather humorous is the vendor actually contacted me in a private chat (Which they asked me not to share and I haven't) basically stating that they don't like the .org that much either but without their market share they wouldn't be able to make a living making XP add ons  That's a  shame!

 

Momma said, "If you don't have anything nice to say about someone don't say anything at all".  So this is what I'll say about Nicolas and the .Org...

Or this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/tanisa-on-x-plane/x-plane-community-rift-and-my-thoughts-on-how-to-deal-with-it/255867771230922

 What's rather humorous is the vendor actually contacted me in a private chat (Which they asked me not to share and I haven't) basically stating that they don't like the .org that much either but without their market share they wouldn't be able to make a living making XP add ons  That's a  shame!

 

 

 

Let me just say, this is NOT an isolated case.  Not by a long shot.

Why is this sad? Without these same business dynamics I doubt you'd have the simulation environment you currently enjoy ... whatever the platform.

 

Why is it sad? Because once money is introduced to the equation stuff like this happens.

Most games do not permit users to charge for mods.

 

 

you are the saddest of them all currently.

Jack,

You should know better.  You are a major add-on developer in the X-Plane world and to come to this growing community within Avsim and make such a statement about a respected and well liked member of this community is, to say the least, very hard to understand.  This may cause some potential customers to reconsider purchasing your products, I know it just did for me.  But more important than that is such a comment to a colleague is just not right.  Perhaps you had a bad day, and if so I hope it gets better, but most reasonable people would be ashamed of themselves to comport themselves in such a manner.

I'm worried about what onlookers who are considering getting X-Plane are thinking of its community. Very very well done for making it look appealing!

Jesse,

 

I myself apologize, I hope we can get back on track with whats important here..... I am embarrassed that I spent this much time on this instead of getting my 1.1 update out the door..... Sorry guys...

Yeah as a customer of all the devs chiming In, I am also concerned in the direction this is going. We all just need to get along whether you are at the .org or x-pilot.

 

Can we just get along.

Wait.... What is this thread about again? Cause I'm thinking I must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque!

It's sad that so much of our hobby is now overshadowed by "business dynamics".

Well, that always happen after awhile. And it is quite easy to loose ANY customer support with a lackluster reply  or if they felt neglected. I know several people with very bad feelings against X-Aviation. Not people that were involved with old stuff, but I would say that the DC-3 probably was the cause of very hard feelings in the last few months.

 

In my opinion these things are stupid but there are simply several people who are so deeply involved that they sometimes react to emotionally. In fact as a software developer I can truly understand it, but I know that I keep away from places where my programs are discussed. It would be to easy to react too harsh. This is simply the job of our support teams. If I would yell at them it doesn't really matter. They know it is nothing personal. But such a reaction to a confused would be customer...

 

In my opinion X-Plane.org and X-Aviation both have this problem. There is a real difference to the german Aerosoft fo5rum. They simply use their supporters that are used to this pain and sometimes very emotional statements. But I think the difference to .org Aerosoft doesn't really have so much money invested into X-Plane as .org (think about the about the amount of freeware oin their servers alone...)

But really allow free discussions as long as they stay in certain boundaries, so they don't allow any calls to NOT BUY a product. Even if it is very likely that they will never sell these products.

No , I wouldn't claim that aerosoft is a perfect company either, but they are simply more professional in their customer care and it sometimes simply pays to hold people in their community.

 

In my opinion no company is really in a position to throw stones at each other. I saw situations with a pretty good handling and sometimes I coulkd only think: Ok, someone should go to this guy and pull him from his computer right now! I think X-Plane needs both companies.

 

But I laso know that there are some cases that are and will probably be a problem for sometime. I know when I really entered the X-Plane community (with the release of X-Plane 10, I was sometimes totally astonished that there were  forums where they really wanted to know if you bought the software at this shop before they gave you support. This was really something that I never saw in FSX. Ok, I understand the issues behind this. End user support really is expensive but the normal handling wasn't really professional either. Would it really be so difficult to write a standard reply in which  the person with a question is informed that in X-Plane in many cases the installation routines are written by the store, not the developer, so a reply that would be correcxt in one store might be wrong in another store .. Add to this the geral address where people can reach the developer if needes... and then everybody with admin or moderation rights has to use these standard replies as a first resort, to hold the situation under control or5 direct him to a forum where he might find better help for his problem.

 

The problem is: You don't want to scare customers away. And if you scare him away, but he might send other interested people away.

You see, I cant help but not wonder why any FSX users don't wish to switch over to X-Plane. This is also a reason why I rarely post anything anymore. To much drama, not enough work getting done to make every part of this greater community a better place for all.

 

John, with all do respect, I like your product. I don't have it, and perhaps never will, but its a great addition to the X-Plane lineup and really is a unique product. However, you seem to think you drew no lines, and that you caused no ripples in the community from your actions. It is as if you had no expectations of what would happen advertising your product on the Org and then not selling with them and then also expecting that advertisement to go on benefiting another outlet.

 

The whole event created a lot of this drama, and for what? nothing really, because maybe its just you took the wrong approach and i can forgive you for that, lets tone it down now, please.

 

Wow!  Your whole post started off great, Jack!   I was genuinely sitting here in shock, as I was reading what an x-plane.org developer was saying about x-plane.org.

Then you decide to make an unwarranted personal attack.

You seem to have an odd opinion of how an Org Developer thinks. I don't post often my opinions so I cant blame you. I truly think things can change in the right direction and for the better, do you? I hope as a fellow X-Plane Developer we can all agree that personal attacks of any kind, including the one John and myself made is not needed and really doesn't help none of us in any way.

But why do i see so much of it?

 

 

Or this:

 

https://www.facebook.com/notes/tanisa-on-x-plane/x-plane-community-rift-and-my-thoughts-on-how-to-deal-with-it/255867771230922

This of course I agree is not the best approach, and that is why we all asked Ela to cool it down. Was not going anywhere positive and i knew that from the get go. We are instead going to take more positive actions to fix this rift, but it takes all of us X-Plane Developers, not just Dan and I. I tried to talk about this with Goran last year but to no avail. Wish something would have come of that.

 

 

Let me just say, this is NOT an isolated case.  Not by a long shot.

This is not what we need, we don't need more bringing up old drama for the sake of promoting the latest drama. You do this a lot Goran, its silly, and pointless now. And that's the last time i bring up old stuff in the same light.

 

 

Jack,

You should know better.  You are a major add-on developer in the X-Plane world and to come to this growing community within Avsim and make such a statement about a respected and well liked member of this community is, to say the least, very hard to understand.  This may cause some potential customers to reconsider purchasing your products, I know it just did for me.  But more important than that is such a comment to a colleague is just not right.  Perhaps you had a bad day, and if so I hope it gets better, but most reasonable people would be ashamed of themselves to comport themselves in such a manner.

You are right, I should know better and for the most part I do. I have sat back for the most part of the past 2 years watching others play all this drama. You are also write, I am having a bad day. It actually started when i saw this post, long before I saw Johns post. For the longest time now I have been at odds with how the Org is moderated. But I can only do so much to help. Rude moderators, people being banned for either not knowing better, being to young to know better, or for nothing at all really, and then drama spilling over to this forum, has just got me a bit on the bad mood side of things. John's post didn't help, but only fan those flames. So I apologize for my rude behavior. 

I'll say this, where i cant fix this rift in the community myself, I can do what I can to make the Org better. I agree with most people on the opinions of both Brett and Dave. Mainly because I see it ills the community so.

 

As for all of us Developers, myself included, we need to move past this whole rift in the community. If not else, we should do it in private. The community doesn't need all this.

 

I apologize to Tom Allensworth as well, this drama has no place over at Avsim, other then to open some light on things the Org needs to change to better itself. And I apologize to everyone else in this greater Flight Sim community, because we as developers can do better.

 

 

Again, Thanks, and enjoy your flights,

Jack

 

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?showtopic=70767&page=4

 

Jack posts on the .org as "FlyingJackal".

 

 

You're as guilty as anyone for inflammatory behaviour, Jack.