Jack posts on the .org as "FlyingJackal".

 

 

You're as guilty as anyone for inflammatory behaviour, Jack.

Ok, I didnt want to get into this, but you Ben are IN NO POSITION TO CRITICIZE EITHER! Instead you shoulöd sometimes use twitch to learn more about some people!

 

This is nothing personal but I can tell you no one here who is in any official position is without blame!

And that's the problem. Always remember, we are only humans so everybody makes mistakes. This is the important thing. Don't react so fast with each other and try to talk with each other.

 

Everybody who is under stress, makes mistakes. I klnow this since I am one of the guys who tries to talk sense into these disgruntled customers...

John, with all do respect, I like your product. I don't have it, and perhaps never will, but its a great addition to the X-Plane lineup and really is a unique product. However, you seem to think you drew no lines, and that you caused no ripples in the community from your actions. It is as if you had no expectations of what would happen advertising your product on the Org and then not selling with them and then also expecting that advertisement to go on benefiting another outlet.

 

No offense, Jack, but I get the impression you don't know the whole story by reading this. Let's just say that John made his decision of where to sell his own product relatively late in his marketing game. That should have been obvious when XA didn't have much of any time to market it like I traditionally would. I find this comment really off the mark.

 

 

As to Dan's post, it's lengthy. No doubt about it, and it's sad that such a lengthy post has to be made to try and distinguish why a community may react the way it does. All it is is an attempt of an excuse for a community to employ bad behavior. Dan has some valid points in this lengthy post as well, and there's no doubt that the history of the org being so community driven prior to Nicolas' arrival is a huge factor in why people are so rebellious at times. Old timers remember the older days, and new comers get brushed off by bad attitudes from mods, which rubs them wrong even further because they assume association by proxy of name that the org is owned and maintained by Laminar. It's *astonishing* the amount of e-mails that come my way in customer support where people mentioned they purchased a product from "X-Plane" and need my help. They genuinely know no difference, and I see this as a big problem. Nicolas has every right to ultimately run the forum as he so wishes, but it's blurred lines at the moment with the name and current promotional push (years old...long before Nicolas) within the X-Plane application itself.

 

  

Insulting Dan as you are wont gain you nothing. He has helped the community grow much more then you ever will. Go back to your preferred playground as you will, cause you are the saddest of them all currently.

 

Wow, Jack. :(   This is very sad to read given the original context of this entire thread and how it has played out up till this post.

 

 

I know several people with very bad feelings against X-Aviation. Not people that were involved with old stuff, but I would say that the DC-3 probably was the cause of very hard feelings in the last few months.

 

From my light reading on it (I try to stay out of it except for official forums), it's really the same few people sounding off their horn. You're always going to have a vocal bunch. They'll also *usually* get over it once they get their fix. Patience is a virtue in this line of work, it seems.

 

 

In my opinion X-Plane.org and X-Aviation both have this problem.

 

I agree with this. It's entirely easy to react emotionally. Sometimes, however, I think some of my responses are taken out of context by the user as well. Emotions don't carry well over text. It genuinely depends on the user reading the response. Are they happy, upset, negative? How they feel in that moment will encourage the tone of text. I am often times mobile and keep to short replies, but timely replies. That can, at times, come across as sarcastic in an unintended way. Other times I can get just as into it as anyone else. One thing I know for certain is we listen to everything that comes across our table and try to be proactive about it behind the scenes. Many of our products have changed shape because of customer feedback or suggestions. One thing you will not see is someone being banned from our site because they are praising some X-Plane product not affiliated to us. This simply defies the simple logic of "good for the community", and it's here where I find this whole playground logic entirely rubbish from a productive standpoint.

 

I really appreciate what Avsim has going here, and enjoy the people being able to freely discuss anything they want products wise. That's how it should be for the community.

 

Ok, I didn6t want to get into this, but you Ben are IN NO POSITION TO CRITICIZE EITHER!

What gave you the impression that Ben feels he's innocent to any blame? I don't think that was his point.

Y'all should hug this out. Fratboy style.

Both sites seem to have a mix of amazing talent and big personalities but I for one will not be going to the org while it has that garish 16-bit graphics Xmas theme. Oh no. For a moment I thought I'd gone back to the mid 90's, Netscape Navigator, and dialup.

You seem to have an odd opinion of how an Org Developer thinks.

Not really. I have an odd opinion of how you think. I remember you went on about a political discussion in the org shoutbox at 1 point a while back and you were banned from the org for that. While you were contracted to them. Lesson is, don't bite the hand that feeds you.

 

I don't post often my opinions so I cant blame you. I truly think things can change in the right direction and for the better, do you?

Unfortunately, no, I don't. I want things to change, but the same conflict has been going since long before I came on to the scene. And nothing has changed.

 

And as far as the contact you claim to have made with me to try to resolve what happened back then...let's clarify that right now.  I was the one that made first contact.  and nothing was resolved because I gave the solution to get it resolved, to which you agreed, and it was not followed through.

 

The fact remains you made a personal attack on John when all he was doing was emphasizing something that "Tanisa on X-Plane" posted on her Facebook page. That there needs to be fences around the playground so everyone can be happy.

Ok, I didn6t want to get into this, but you Ben are IN NO POSITION TO CRITICIZE EITHER!

 

This is nothing personal but I can tell you no one here who is in any official position is without blame!

And that's the problem. Always remember, we are only humans so everybody makes mistakes. This is the important thing. Don't react so fast with each other and try to talk with each other.

 

Everybody who is under stress, makes mistakes. I klnow this since I am one of the guys who tries to talk sense into these disgruntled customers...

 

I'm here on AVSIM for the facts.

 

I will freely admit that I have a very abrasive personality at times.

I prefer truth to political correctness any day of the week.

 

A true friend will stab you in the front.

 

 

Jack made multiple assertions that he's been sitting innocently in the background.

 

The facts on ground show this is not true.

Y'all should hug this out. Fratboy style.

 

Both sites seem to have a mix of amazing talent and big personalities but I for one will not be going to the org while it has that garish 16-bit graphics Xmas theme. Oh no. For a moment I thought I'd gone back to the mid 90's, Netscape Navigator, and dialup.

 

Scroll to the very bottom of the page, on the left hand side in the page footer there is an option to change the theme.

 

Look for the text label "Change Theme" next to the orange RSS icon.

 

I dislike the cheesy xmas theme too.

I have a soft spot for all the individuals who make my favourite toys. So it can become a smidge uncomfortable when a number of them have public spats.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we all got together face to face, we'd get along just fine .. over a beer or three.

 

It's a good thing that this boil is lanced so that it doesn't continue to fester. Cheers!

I have a soft spot for all the individuals who make my favourite toys. So it can become a smidge uncomfortable when a number of them have public spats.

 

I'm willing to bet that if we all got together face to face, we'd get along just fine .. over a beer or three.

 

It's a good thing that this boil is lanced so that it doesn't continue to fester. Cheers!

Yes, I agree. I thought I was going to bring up "torque", just to lighten things up a bit.

I'm willing to bet that if we all got together face to face, we'd get along just fine .. over a beer or three.

Just to let you know, we've already been there done that. See my signature at X-Pilot if you want to see the end result.  :wink:

 

I'll let you know the next time it happens. Multiple times over the years so far have not yielded expected results.

 

Insulting Dan as you are wont gain you nothing. He has helped the community grow much more then you ever will. Go back to your preferred playground as you will, cause you are the saddest of them all currently.

 

 

 

Not sure why you said this but this is just downright rude..

Hmm when I saw the title of original post I had a feeling this discussion might quickly degenerate.

 

Anyway I keep noticing comments of how bad the org is over the years but honestly I have never had a problem with them. On the contrary, i have found it a very productive and helpful place.

 

There are certain xplane sites though, that I no longer visit. However there is no need to be inflammatory and hang the dirty washing out in public.

 

Regards Pete

True, Pete

But sometimes, people get a little fed up with being treated poorly just because they are new to a forum where some issues seem so simple and 2nd nature to the regulars, but totally alien to someone wanting to give X-Plane a go for the first time.

I have an idea.  In order to brighten up the mood a bit, why don't we invite some avid x-plane haters and some fsx haters so we can see a good old fashion "My sim is better than your sim" debate.

 

It's either that or Larry can bring up his discussion about "torque", like he mentioned earlier and hmmmm............. nobody wants that.   :bad: 

It is as if you had no expectations of what would happen advertising your product on the Org and then not selling with them and then also expecting that advertisement to go on benefiting another outlet.

 

Again, Thanks, and enjoy your flights,

Jack

 

   Interesting you point this out.    Also interesting you have a large signature advertising your products and that if I click on them they can be bought somewhere else but not at the avsim marketplace.

 

   Makes your comment above all the stranger.  If thats what you really think perhaps you shouldnt have your advertising here linking back to purchases somewhere else?

I'm willing to bet that if we all got together face to face, we'd get along just fine .. over a beer or three.

 

My sentiment exact.

 

But I believe it's one good thing this thread is showing, there is lots of diversity in use humans, and it's tolerated when we can be civil.  Some of the of the overboard remarks are pointed out by our fellow users and we have a chance to think about what we are saying and reaccess if needed.

 

I get the impression from this thread that if I asked a newuser question there would be tolerance.  If one or two users  responded RTFM one or two others would probably point out some friendly coaching.  The newuser should soon realize the diversity in tones is the same way it was when he was in kindergarten... the same way it was when he was in elementary school, like it was when he was in middle school, high school, college, on the job.

 

I'm glad to see we are checking each other when it comes to personal attacks.  In a perfect world we might be able to have discussions and leave that out.  But I'm glad for the overall theme that that is representative of this thread, that we can speak our opinion.

 

As far as x-plane.org, it might be the same way.  I don't know.  I'm new to that board.  I'll continue to use both avsim.net and x-plane.org.  I might never have discovered x-plane.org had I thought it was the official forum of x-plane.  I was going there under a false impression that I was getting support for a product I thought I had bought from them.  It appears that the OP has cleared that up.

 

I'm very glad that I see I can get support from here as I have in the past for Microsoft Simulator.

 

By the way, I usually stay up with the latest product of the things I like (OS, Applications, Flight Simulator application), so I started loosing interest with FSX when Microsoft announced dropping it.

 

My interest became rekindled when I discovered X-Plane.  It's not as easy to start using as FSX, so I thought I was going to X-Plane's official site for support.

 

I have found the support on x-plane.org lack diversity in scope.  As a forum, this is the whim of the administrators.  I totally respect that.  I was taken abase because I thought it was x-plane that was discouraging feature request and discussion.

 

It's totally their prerogative not to want the xplane developers to hear about features they are against, and to squash those type of conversations.

 

Personally I'm very sure that Laminar Research is interested in the user's opinion about the views on the screens and other features they are providing such as the record feature.

 

By the way, I have spoken to Laminar Research a few times on the phone.  They have always been very friendly and cordially receptive of my questions, opinions and suggestions.  I don't know if my feature requests falls on deaf ear from receptions who haven't a clue, but I have always been treated very well.  I thought my post were followups to avoid taking up their precious time on the phone.

 

I hope the X-Plane community can learn that they can come here as well as some of their other favorite forum hangouts and get cooperative support for their niche of the hobby.

 

-- L. James

 

--

L. D. James

[email protected]

www.apollo3.com/~ljames