For example, you sir are totally unaware that I have suffered from extreme OCD from the age of 8, and was once close to a breakdown, imagine how a sarcastic response would affect me! Thus, it's far kinder to treat members with respect, and kindness, and above all else answer their queries with a modicum of patience. This is the path to a friendly happy forum, rather than one where we get each other backs up.

I'm very sorry to here that Martin, but with great respect your OCD problem was until now unknown to the forum. You can't really expect everyone posting here to be aware of the various potential consequences of posts to sufferers of the wide range of possible conditions. Kyle isn't a troll and sarcasm is not normally considered to be "deliberately provocative".  Openly accusing people of trolling is really quite serious. Surely better, in the interests of this being a happy and friendly forum, to report to report the post and see what the mods think of it.

 

 

No of course not! You misinterpreted my comments.

A beta tester is employed by a developer, in the respect of being paid [free copy of the product] for their services. Whether officially representing the companies views or not, they still have a "relationship" with the company. Thus, many viewing these boards will rightly or wrongly associate the individual with the company in question.

I didn't misunderstand at all. An employee of Boeing is a much closer representative of that company than a beta tester is of PMDG. By your logic if a beta tester represents PMDG then my hypothetical Boeing employee poster's views certainly would represent Boeing. Yet you say "No of course not."

 

By no stretch of the imagination can a beta tester be said to be representing PMDG in any way.

I'm very sorry to here that Martin, but with great respect your OCD problem was until now unknown to the forum. You can't really expect everyone posting here to be aware of the various potential consequences of posts to sufferers of the wide range of possible conditions. Kyle isn't a troll and sarcasm is not normally considered to be "deliberately provocative". Openly accusing people of trolling is really quite serious.

 

 

 

Kevin... this is easy!

 

I mention my OCD, to make it clear to you that a vast number of individuals in society have all kinds of issues.

 

Of course I don't expect everyone here to be aware of illnesess, or "various potential consequences". That's precisely the point! :smile:

 

What I would like, is others to understand that those illnesses and potential consequences exist, and consider that before contributing to forums in an unkind manner.

 

It takes very little effort NOT to be deliberately sarcastic. It's easy. I do it all the time, and every single member of this forum has the capability to respond politely and without deliberate sarcasm.

 

How easy is it to avoid posting irritating sarcastic replies Kevin? How easy is it to be polite to people Kevin? Very easy isn't it? So lets do that!

 

As for the definition of the word "troll", there are varying degrees and varying definitions. 

 

I have already posted the definition along with a link. The individual in question has a reputation for repeated sarcastic replies, replies that have been objected to on the forum. You decide yourself if you think the individual in question complies with that definition, for that is your right. However, the definition is there in writing for you to peruse.

 

 

By your logic if a beta tester represents PMDG then my hypothetical Boeing employee poster's views certainly would represent Boeing.

Kevin, again, this is easy.

 

You are misquoting me! I didn't say a beta tester represents a developer, not once.

 

 

I said... Whether officially representing the companies views or not, they still have a "relationship" with the company. Which is not open to debate, it's an obvious fact.

 

 

I said, and it's there in the quote you posted... "Thus, many viewing these boards will rightly or wrongly associate the individual with the company in question."

 

Apologies for the bold, and underlining, it's not to be rude, or shout, it's for emphasis as you have missed the important bits.

Oh boy...

 

 

Sent from my mobile thingamajig

Oh boy indeed...

 

I was intending not to contribute to this debate any longer. Enough has been said, and I have a dissertation to check.

 

But unfortunately, I have been misquoted. Hence the reply.

 

 

But unfortunately, I have been misquoted. Hence the reply.

And rightly so.

If nobody addresses me personally, I won't contribute further.

I totally agree with Martin.  I want to make these things very clear to all the people that are reading this topics, first of all I don't suffer from any illnesses.  Mr Kyle and myself Mo we had a debate a while ago and his approach to help me wasn't in  a proper manner, so you just can't pick on Martin because he made a point.  There could be two reason for Kyle acting like this, first he could be suffering from illness or depression or he could be being bullied at his job during the day and he can't stand up to his superiors, and he is building up anxiety and when he comes to the forum he is trying to pick on some members.  I have nothing personal against him, it is just his approach how he writes to members.  He needs to adopt some better manners.  All this problem just because one person couldn't answer in a nice way.  Please Kyle, do not contribute in such a way to upset members, let PMDG team sort it out.

 

I would also like to point out that this forum is international and to some members English is their second language, so sometimes topics written by these people can be misunderstood but that is no reason for others to reply in a sarcastic way.

 

Bottom line we are all coming here to enjoy our hobby and to have a little socialisation with each other.  Please don't ruin it.

This thread should have been locked with the happy, humorous ending that Martin, me and others had been working for so really hard!   -_-

 

T H E   E N D .

This thread is obviously a contentious one and contains quite far reaching issues that has gone far beyond the OP.maybe this thread should be locked and another opened to discuss the treatment of forum users by some PMDG staff and some self appointed forum police.

judging by the views it would seem many are interested in it's outcome.

 

   steve

Can we close this thread already?

This thread is obviously a contentious one and contains quite far reaching issues that has gone far beyond the OP.maybe this thread should be locked and another opened to discuss the treatment of forum users by some PMDG staff and some self appointed forum police.

judging by the views it would seem many are interested in it's outcome.

 

steve

There is no outcome anymore just useless, childish fighting

Cant believe a question we get on a weekly basis has made a 5 page thread without even getting an answer  <_< . and as James said "Can we close this thread already? "

There was a answer  it was post 2  which answered the op question

Of course I don't expect everyone here to be aware of illnesess, or "various potential consequences". That's precisely the point! :smile:

 

What I would like, is others to understand that those illnesses and potential consequences exist, and consider that before contributing to forums in an unkind manner.

 

It takes very little effort NOT to be deliberately sarcastic. It's easy. I do it all the time, and every single member of this forum has the capability to respond politely and without deliberate sarcasm.

 

Martin, with respect you are expecting everyone here to operate in an extremely politically correct way, sensitive to all possible disabilities and reactions to posts. I think you are expecting too much. For example, I'm familiar with what OCD is but have no idea what the possible consequences are for the sufferer when on the receiving end of sarcasm. So how can I, or anyone else, make allowances for that in my posts?

 

I don't see a problem with sarcasm, it's a form of humour. These questions come up so often that it's not surprising that forum regulars like Kyle get rather tired of seeing them and lose patience. Sarcasm is one way of dealing with this. As far as I am aware there is no forum rule against it.

 

 

You are misquoting me! I didn't say a beta tester represents a developer, not once.

 

I said... Whether officially representing the companies views or not, they still have a "relationship" with the company. Which is not open to debate, it's an obvious fact.

 

 

I said, and it's there in the quote you posted... "Thus, many viewing these boards will rightly or wrongly associate the individual with the company in question."

 

I wasn't misquoting you, I was paraphrasing your argument. Whether you said a beta tester represents PMDG or has a relationship with PMDG dosen't really change that argument. The effect of your assertion is that you think they should be more careful of what they say because of this relationship. If you associate someone with a company, then you are taking what they say as representing that company. Outside of their no-disclosure agreement with PMDG, beta testers are just ordinary forum members here, with no more duty of care to others than any other forum member.

 

As I said, if you believe Kyle overstepped the mark then report it to the moderators. That is what they are for. Accusing someone of being a troll in the forum is not the correct response.

Well, I've been trying to move on from this, but it seems you won't let me.

 

Martin, with respect you are expecting everyone here to operate in an extremely politically correct way, sensitive to all possible disabilities and reactions to posts.

 
 
Absolutely not, not in the slightest. All I ask is for forum members to do something that is absolutely easy, something they should do whether the individual they are responding to is in perfect mental and physical health, or the opposite of that, Namely... be nice, be polite, refrain from unnecessary sarcasm that they know from previous encounters annoys people.
 
The above is not "overly politically correct" it is common sense, and good manners. The way our parents bought us up to behave.
 
How is that hard for you to understand?

 

 

So how can I, or anyone else, make allowances for that in my posts?

 
 
With absolute ease, it's a piece of cake, as simple as pie... be polite, and refrain from repeated bouts of sarcasm. Especially if that behaviour,  on previous occasion, has annoyed people. I'm pretty sure you could do something as easy as that couldn't you????

 

I don't see a problem with sarcasm, it's a form of humour.

 

It can be. Depends how it's delivered, it can also be a catalyst for angst. But the way sarcasm is administered here, and in the past, has not been appreciated as humour. On the contrary, it has been received in an negative light. So simple... don't do it!

 

 

Outside of their no-disclosure agreement with PMDG, beta testers are just ordinary forum members here, with no more duty of care to others than any other forum member.

 
 
Except that others that contribute to this forum may not see it that way. You might, and I might, but many don't. As evidenced by the posts in this very topic from individuals who have said exactly that. Would you like me to quote for you?
 
I'll try and spell it out for you a different way... People see a beta tester, someone who has a relationship with a developer, someone who reveals information regarding a product [when permitted to do so] someone who helps others with issues... and so RIGHTLY or WRONGLY, they associate that individual with the company. You might not, I might not, but SOME DO! therefore, my approach would be to recognise this, and do something that is absolutely EASY... be polite and refrain from behaviour that has in the past upset people.

 

As I said, if you believe Kyle overstepped the mark then report it to the moderators.

 

 

 

No thanks, he's a nice guy, I actually like him and wouldn't want to get him into trouble by making an official complaint. One would hope that simply by being honest, he might modify his behaviour a tad... feedback is helpful you see.

 

Now are you going to let me move on? Surely this doesn't have to continue?

 

I would advise you to PM me if you insist on continuing this, for I fear this thread is soon to be locked, and I wouldn't blame PMDG in the slightest.