Any updates on 744V2?

[MorsAbAlto 19]

I wonder how close we are IBTL...

[martin-w 3,239]

So if someone who happens to be employed, however loosely, by Boeing posts on this forum what they say represent Boeing's views?

No of course not! You misinterpreted my comments.

 

A beta tester is employed by a developer, in the respect of being paid [free copy of the product] for their services. Whether officially representing the companies views or not, they still have a "relationship" with the company. Thus, many viewing these boards will rightly or wrongly associate the individual with the company in question.

 

 

As I explained, I am a moderator on a well known flight sim developer/publishers forum, and despite the fact that I am not officially employed by said company, I make sure my behaviour doesn't reflect badly on the company in question.

 

 

BTW, referring to your earlier post, I don't think accusing anyone of being a troll is at all helpful. It's potentially inflammatory,

 

 

No sir! The behaviour that preceded that, and that's not potentially, but definitely inflammatory is frequently answering posts from [often new] members in a deliberately sarcastic manner. Numerous times this behaviour has been the catalyst for arguments. None of us have a clue who we are dealing with, what issues they face, what mental difficulties. Thus to behave that way is wrong.

 

For example, you sir are totally unaware that I have suffered from extreme OCD from the age of 8, and was once close to a breakdown, imagine how a sarcastic response would affect me! Thus, it's far kinder to treat members with respect, and kindness, and above all else answer their queries with a modicum of patience. This is the path to a friendly happy forum, rather than one where we get each other backs up.

 

 

and in this case very unfair.

 

 

It's a word, a word with a definition, and if the behaviour complies with the definition then it's appropriate to use it....

 

"A deliberately provocative message board user".

 

http://www.internetslang.com/TROLL-meaning-definition.asp

 

I would say deliberately posting sarcastic replies qualifies. And to be honest, I have no problem being honest, if it encourages others to treat each other with respect and kindness.

 

 

If anyone is being disruptive it is those who open threads which are clearly covered in pinned topics at the top of the forum. That's bad manners on any forum.

 

 

 

A minor misdemeanour, that doesn't warrant upsetting that individual, and posting sarcastic replies that act as a catalyst for unrest in the forum.

 

Quite frankly, the human race is screwed unless we learn to be more tolerant of each other.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

"A deliberately provocative message board user".

 

My initial response really wasn't as evil as people are making it out to be.  I simply stated the exact same process I use to see if there are updates.  I simply cannot comprehend how it could be at all insensitive, baited, sarcastic, or mean-spirited.  From there, the next post simply referred to the first post, because it was honestly meant as help.  It wasn't until someone made a (rather negative) comment about how people were responding that I pulled out a sarcastic response...about sarcastic responses.  Except - again - I noted that the OP's question itself wasn't stupid, and my post was aimed at helping people answer their own questions without wasting everyone's time.

 

So, that's three separate posts - none of them truly taking shots at people, with one of them even affirming that the question wasn't stupid (unlike the responses of several others) - of me not being a mean old cuss.  Yet, somehow, I'm the one at the center point of a tangential discussion of how "certain" members are really just intentionally mean.

 

 

 

Answer me this:

If someone were to read my initial post, could they not develop a personal work flow to answer the question "are there any updates on [Project A]" at any point in the future?

 

I would argue that my answer fits the "PMDG way" perfectly.  I'd argue further that it wasn't me being sarcastic and unhelpful to him.  It was actually helpful, but for some reason people don't like it when people say "here's how you can help yourself in the future."  That's apparently evil.  It truly isn't.  It's called self-sufficience.  Anyone not encouraging you to not be reliant upon them is being self-servient.  Why sit here and hand feed people answers and develop "followers" when I can tell people how to solve their own problems, getting them to the point of being able to solve the problems of others as well?

 

I honestly think I'm nowhere close to being a troll until someone comes after me for not being super nice to everyone at all times.  Then, I generally just tend to defend myself (still generally not taking shots at people, unless people take personal shots at me).

 

There's a huge difference between not being overly ceremonial/cordial, and being intentionally mean.

[HighTowers 1,434]

Wow. I just scrolled thru 4 pages of nearly nothingness enveloped by arguing when the topic is supposed to be about the 747V2. Instead of all this back and forth slander or whatever you wanna call it, how about talking about the 747 and its iconic presence. 

 

This aircraft has been around since the late 60s, and is now diminishing rapidly, being seen less and less at the airports, because its usefulness and fuel efficiency aren't that competitive anymore. 

Nevertheless, this was an awesome aircraft. Working on the ramp in YVR, it was the most exhilarating thing to witness, after loading and pushing back a 747 that weighed nearly a million pounds take off, was always exciting to see. Focus on that, and that PMDG will be able to provide us the joy of flying these wonderful machines in our beautiful hobby that lets us accomplish what most of us will never be able to enjoy in real life. Enough  of the backlashes. Please. Do it for the sake of the flight sim community. 

All in my humble opinion as a proposal to honor the OP topic. 

[martin-w 3,239]

My initial response really wasn't as evil as people are making it out to be.

 

Evil no, but by your own admittance, you are deliberately sarcastic. Your approach is frequently sarcasm in varying degrees.

 

Post seven on page one, earned you 8 dislikes.

 

Post 17 clearly displayed the words "If you don't want a sarcastic answer don't ask stupid questions". Tongue in cheek maybe, but as you have a reputation for sarcasm,  hardly a good idea, especially considering you had already amassed several dislikes.

 

When a poster is faced with sarcasm, embarrassment ensues, followed by a somewhat stroppy response. Thus the topic regresses.

 

My only point is that refraining from such responses benefits us all.

 

 

 

If someone were to read my initial post, could they not develop a personal work flow to answer the question "are there any updates on [Project A]" at any point in the future?

 

 

Come on Kyle, we all know you well enough, and are familiar with your sarcasm enough to understand your intentions.

 

This isn't rocket science. All of us are aware of your sarcastic style. And you know it irritates people.

 

 

but for some reason people don't like it when people say "here's how you can help yourself in the future."

 

 

 

No, people love that... but try it next time with tact instead of sarcasm.

Wow. I just scrolled thru 4 pages of nearly nothingness enveloped by arguing when the topic is supposed to be about the 747V2. Instead of all this back and forth slander or whatever you wanna call it, how about talking about the 747 and its iconic presence.

I agree, enough has been said.

 

I'll say no more.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Looks like Kyle is really important for you, Martin!   :lol:

[G7USL 117]

Without prejudice, we are so lucky to have Kyle and Ryan here to guide us.  They do it in their own time when they could be doing something else.  They do not deserve any criticism for times when they might have had a hard day or are being asked silly questions.

 

90% of PMDG customers are a cut above the majority of flightsimmers and both Ryan and Kyle have helped me get over problems in their own time and for that, they deserve our uppermost respect.

[bob34 124]

90% of PMDG customers are a cut above the majority of flightsimmers and both Ryan and Kyle have helped me get over problems in their own time and for that, they deserve our uppermost respect.

 

Personally, I think  PMDG's forum has become a horrible experience for many folks who have questions.

The best place to discuss PMDG's products is on other sites and forums where the stress levels are much lower and PMDG's lapdogs aren't waiting to bark at you for asking a question or criticizing the product. 

 

I've been on these forums for 10+ years and I've never felt compelled to tell anyone to read a manual, search a previous thread, or say "it will be ready when it's ready". 

And when I see these self appointed forum monitors driving their post counts up with useless quips, I feel bad for the guy who just wants an innocent question answered. 

 

I'm glad people are starting to complain and push back on the "veterans" that have nothing better to do than judge every post. 

If every valuable answer they give is followed by 10 useless sarcastic responses, the forum would be a better place without them.

[xwindy777 7]

 

 

my post was aimed at helping people answer their own questions without wasting everyone's time.

 

I love when you use the "wasting time" card as if someone answering a simple question is hampering productivity(2nd time in this thread). Again, the topic entitled "Any updates on the 744V2". Anyone concerned with saving time could have easily seen that it wasn't necessary to enter the topic and read everything. Then you proceed to keep arguments like these going even though its clear that it's nowhere. I'll say it again, if anyone isn't finding a particular topic useful then they're free to move along. Nobody's forcing anyone to sit there and sift through all of this. After all, that's what the search function is for!

 

If you found my first post to be "(rather negative)" but I was just trying to help save people from wasting time writing out more then was necessary :Peace:. A simple "No", "Nope" or even "Negatory" would have sufficed. I'm just trying to help. Then you proceeded to post a meme from your buddy Will that says "If you don't want a sarcastic answer, then don't ask a stupid question". Then you say "…….except in this case, I didn't find it fully "stupid" per se….." which implies that you still found it somewhat stupid. If I was the OP asking an innocent question, I'd take that as a jab(a rather negative one).

 

Writing posts 101:

 

Don't start your post with "____________ 101" if you don't want it to come off as sarcastic.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Without prejudice, we are so lucky to have Kyle and Ryan here to guide us.  They do it in their own time when they could be doing something else.  (...)

 

 

Now, Ryan actually is an employee of PMDG.  

 

Back on topic now, guys: No, there have been no updates on 744v2 since this thread here was started ... Glad I could help!!!   :LMAO:

[martin-w 3,239]

Looks like Kyle is really important for you, Martin! :lol:

Damn it! Okay, I admit, I love him. Sadly, I know he can never be mine. I guess we always try to hurt the ones we love. :(

 

P.S. I love Bob and Adrian more.  :wink:

[MorsAbAlto 19]

And now this thread is really turning into something personal and rather childish.

 

"Oh look, see how bad this Kyle-guy is. Oh my. What a bad person." "Oh yeah. You are so right. Finally someone is speaking up against these veterans and forum police. Justice!" *sigh*

 

There are valid points on all sides, sure. But can you please just leave it be. 

 

Much worse than a little sarcasm from Kyle, IMHO, are all the people that are jumping to the OP's rescue here. The guy is 24 years old and can well stand up for himself - which he did. Why are there people pecking away at Kyle now, that have absolutely no stake in this matter whatsoever? To prove how nice a person they are? To what end? It's just ridiculous how much some people read into a meme, taking it apart word for word and be all whiny about it. It was only posted in gest. And I have to admit - I found it rather funny. Maybe you have to like Will Smith to feel the same way...

 

While the OP did ask an innocent question - unless he just registered, he probably knows his way around this forum and is well aware of the many threads that were asking for another update on the B744v2. Just like this one. And how they all led to the same answer. Many a forum member ask themselves: Why open another thread? The PMDG update policy is well known among their forum-dwelling customers. All this does, is cluttering up the forum and pushing "more important" (mind the quotation marks) topics to page 2 and beyond.

 

I am not trying to take sides here, other than my own. Only these little forum wars are so unnecessary. The arguments are really always the same.

[steve howlett 137]

Without prejudice, we are so lucky to have Kyle and Ryan here to guide us.  They do it in their own time when they could be doing something else.  They do not deserve any criticism for times when they might have had a hard day or are being asked silly questions.

 

90% of PMDG customers are a cut above the majority of flightsimmers and both Ryan and Kyle have helped me get over problems in their own time and for that, they deserve our uppermost respect.

Dave are you saying because someone has had a hard day it somehow entitles them to be rude.and if as you put it, if it's a silly post why get involved in it??

 

Personally, I think  PMDG's forum has become a horrible experience for many folks who have questions.

The best place to discuss PMDG's products is on other sites and forums where the stress levels are much lower and PMDG's lapdogs aren't waiting to bark at you for asking a question or criticizing the product. 

 

I've been on these forums for 10+ years and I've never felt compelled to tell anyone to read a manual, search a previous thread, or say "it will be ready when it's ready". 

And when I see these self appointed forum monitors driving their post counts up with useless quips, I feel bad for the guy who just wants an innocent question answered. 

 

I'm glad people are starting to complain and push back on the "veterans" that have nothing better to do than judge every post. 

If every valuable answer they give is followed by 10 useless sarcastic responses, the forum would be a better place without them.

seems the OP isn't going to use these forums anymore,as he said his father has 4000hrs on 747 and he could be a valuable source of information.

instead he gets jumped on and now probably won't come back.i hope he reads this and changes his mind.

 

  steve

[ZKOKQ 984]

The only reason the OP got jumped on was he was not a member of the  "Good Old Boys Club". He had one thing that saved him from total embarrassment, was he signed his name.

[mrtk311 34]

Someone lock this topic please. I'm running out of popcorn.