Sign in to follow this  
J van E

DTG Flight School: certainly NOT not for us simmers

Recommended Posts

In case anyone still wondered if the upcoming DTG Flight School might offer an in-depth and realistic experience for us simmers: it won't. It will mainly be fun. Check this quote from the Q&A topic. 

 

The first point I need to make clear is that DTG Flight School has been developed for entertainment only. It is not an educational tool or designed to teach people how to fly a real aircraft. Instead it is focused on teaching players the basics of flight simulation in a compelling and accessible way. If you have never played a flight sim before or not used one for a few years then DTG Flight School will be ideal for you. 

 

Although the lessons in Flight School are based on real world flying lessons it is important to remember our focus is on "compelling and accessible". While doing a written exam might be part of the process of learning to fly, in reality making a player spend hours committing pages of text to memory and then completing a written test doesn't make for very compelling gameplay.  To give another example we get asked this a lot with our Train Simulator title - how realistic is it? Again, building  the fire in a steam engine and then letting the pressure build for several hours before you can drive it would be realistic but it wouldn't be a very fun experience to do every time you wanted to go for a journey. 

 

​Flight School will feature lessons about weather, navigation and such like but we will not be looking at the drier topics like abiding to all the air laws. The whole purpose of Flight School is show people that flight simming can be fun. That it is not this dry and boring genre of gaming which you have spend hours reading a 500+ page manual in order to enjoy. To that end we have focused on the parts of learning to fly which are accessible and fun to do. 

 

- Martin 

 

I personally for instance LOVE reading 'dry and boring' manuals for hours to get a plane going. And I personally like a sim to show me how to fly a real aircraft. I sincerely hope all of this will not apply to the later to be released full sim...!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

But surely we were never expecting it to be for us? It's Flight School. Closed circuit. The only reason we would ever possibly want to buy it is for curiosity factor. We should be looking to the main sim.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post

We have spent the last two years listening to existing and would-be simmers alike. We have been intent on discovering what keeps you all simming, and what stops those who would like to get into flight simulation from doing so. We have learned that flight simulation appeals to an incredible amount of people, but a lot of them find it too hard to get started with. It is our aim to reclaim and attract those would-be simmers, but in order to do so, we need to present flight simulation in a way that doesn't initially overwhelm them.

 

 

That is where Flight School comes in.  We wanted to create an experience which makes flight simming accessible to anyone who wants to try it. Doing this as a standalone release allows us to focus on tailoring the experience more at these players.

 

- Martin 

  • Upvote 11

Share this post


Link to post

I don't understand the meaning of this thread. The OP sounds as if someone promised him something and then took it away from him.

 

I believe Flight School might be a great tool for people to get into aviation and acquire a basic understanding. Something like Rod Machado's great lessons on FS2002. Basic lessons, to the point, and fun. And certainly useful and educational. So what's the problem with that?

  • Upvote 11

Share this post


Link to post

I don't understand the meaning of this thread. The OP sounds as if someone promised him something and then took it away from him.

 

I believe Flight School might be a great tool for people to get into aviation and acquire a basic understanding. Something like Rod Machado's great lessons on FS2002. Basic lessons, to the point, and fun. And certainly useful and educational. So what's the problem with that?

Ditto. Just another rant...

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post

I think there will be a large amount of simmers who will welcome Flight School. It will be a nice change of pace and add variety, plus teach many of us who did not learn to fly properly to do so. One of the goals is to significantly broaden the flight sim market and I believe this will be accomplished. The product that will provide us more of what we like will be the full simulator due out in late 2016. I for one am looking forward to Flight School and will purchase it when available. I also know that the revenue that Dovetail receives can be invested into creating a better "ultimate" product for all simmers, new and veteran.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

We have spent the last two years listening to existing and would-be simmers alike. We have been intent on discovering what keeps you all simming, and what stops those who would like to get into flight simulation from doing so. We have learned that flight simulation appeals to an incredible amount of people, but a lot of them find it too hard to get started with. It is our aim to reclaim and attract those would-be simmers, but in order to do so, we need to present flight simulation in a way that doesn't initially overwhelm them.

 

 

That is where Flight School comes in.  We wanted to create an experience which makes flight simming accessible to anyone who wants to try it. Doing this as a standalone release allows us to focus on tailoring the experience more at these players.

 

- Martin 

 

Just like with train sim, I do not understand why there can't be an option for the end user to decide? If I want to simulate building a full head of steam before my rail journey and go through all the hoops and check of making sure it does you should let me. If I want a casual, quick experience then adjust my slider setting and off I go. DTG I see you point but why make it one or the other? You can clearly see people want BOTH. Sure they need something easy tog et off the ground but then after you leave them nothing to further the simulation. Sometimes it is frustrating to always have to be one side or the other. 

 

I am a certificated pilot in the real world, I work for the FAA now soon to be a controller challenges and extreme levels of realism is what we want. I love the train sim series. I have TS 2016 and when running it I wish I could simulate everything to the PMDG level we all know and love, but designing the sim for casual use in mind eliminates all this. Please why not offer both and again let the user decide on their respective setup. Is it that hard to achieve?

Share this post


Link to post

Is it that hard to achieve?

 

Well... yes it's hard.

 

It takes time, money and a big development effort to offer a product aimed at the "knowledgeable" amongst flight-simmers. Not to mention the real world pilots.

 

Also I think some are missing the "big picture" here. It's GOOD to widen this hobby so that it stops being a "niche" market. It's GOOD to attract new people into it. Some years down the road those same people might be developing new and exciting products for the flight sim community.

 

I've had many people asking me "hey, so how do I get into flight simulation?" and my answer used to be "just install FS2002/FS2004 and fly the Rod Machado lessons, see how you like that!". Now with FSX, P3D or XP10 I don't know how to answer to that question really. Am I going to say to someone today in 2016 to install a 15-year-old piece of software? They'd be lucky to find it!

 

And DTG (or someone else) might even release a more "professional" kind of Flight School after this first one has laid the first stones, just step by step.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm afraid this could turn out to be a MS Flight discussion, all over again.

 

Guys, the key phrase here is:

That is where Flight School comes in. We wanted to create an experience which makes flight simming accessible to anyone who wants to try it. Doing this as a standalone release allows us to focus on tailoring the experience more at these players.

If you feel Flight School is not for you because you are way above what it offers, then don't buy it.

If you feel Flight School is for you because you can get a refresher or have fun with it, then buy it.

I do not understand why there can't be an option for the end user to decide?

Ok, DTG wants to build an "entry" point Flight School simulator to attract new simmers, from the getgo they said Flight School was aimed at a certain group of people.

 

Now some will complain the Flight School offering is not professional enough. If you want professional training, there are plenty of such offerings. (Google It).

 

Why do we always have to complain about what x o y Flight Simulator developer company offers?

Why not let other new or veteran users decide what they want?

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post

 

Why not let other new or veteran users decide what they want?

 

Are you agreeing with me or saying since they mentioned it was solely to broaden the user base it is what it is?

Share this post


Link to post

Are you agreeing with me or saying since they mentioned it was solely to broaden the user base it is what it is?

Sorry, no, I'm not agreeing with you.

 

--------------------------------------------------

"Why not let other new or veteran users decide what they want? "

Let me broaden that sentence in the context of my post: 

 

Flight School may or will appeal to a new user who wants Flight training, then let him start with Flight School, and maybe also Flight School may appeal to someone who considers himself a hardcore 20+ years simmer (like me) who wants to get a refresher while having fun.

 

I really enjoy simming with P3D now, and most times I fly by the book.

But, the fun I had with MS Flight is still unsurpassed by those two.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

 


Rod Machado's great lessons on FS2002

Now there is something to evoke memories, when it was all awe.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I am fine with it, especially if it brings in new users.  I'm ok with it because we appear to be getting another true upgrade to a "hardcore" sim, similar to X-Plane, FSX, or P3D. 

 

I find the idea that weather, navigation, or other "flying" basics is easy.  It's not.  Not that it matter in a simulator, but navigation especially seems to be something new users can't even begin to grasp.  The procedure to fly an ILS is the easiest thing you can do, but people can't wrap their head around it.  Now introduce VOR or NDB approaches and see what happens, lol

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post

I am fine with it, especially if it brings in new users.  I'm ok with it because we appear to be getting another true upgrade to a "hardcore" sim, similar to X-Plane, FSX, or P3D. 

 

I find the idea that weather, navigation, or other "flying" basics is easy.  It's not.  Not that it matter in a simulator, but navigation especially seems to be something new users can't even begin to grasp.  The procedure to fly an ILS is the easiest thing you can do, but people can't wrap their head around it.  Now introduce VOR or NDB approaches and see what happens, lol

 

So true. I laugh to myself when I think of a time, earlier in my simming "career", where I barely knew what I was doing with that fancy, overwhelming PMDG MD-11 while trying to shoot an ILS approach into KMIA at night (!) while attempting to obey a VATSIM controller (!!!). Frying pan --------> Fire. And that's not even making mention of the struggle I went through to get to that dubious place.

 

Today, I'm a more knowledgeable and happier (though poorer) simmer...for the most part...but had to earn this place through concerted study, practice, and reading endless (and invaluable) advice from this community, among others.

 

I for one am delighted that DTG is approaching in a conscious and deliberate way the building of a larger constituency dedicated to flight simming....even if I never touch Flight School.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post

I don't understand the meaning of this thread. The OP sounds as if someone promised him something and then took it away from him.

 

 

 

Ditto. Just another rant...

 

Ah, no, sorry, this wasn't meant as just another rant. Maybe my last sentences set you on the wrong foot. The meaning of this topic was to make clear that Flight School is not what a lot of simmers still think or expect or hope it will be. I keep on reading about expectations (also elsewhere) that will never ever be met with Flight School and by posting the quote in a seperate topic I thought this would be settled once and for all. The last sentences were merely posted to make it clear that I am not in the target group for Flight School (although I probably will get it to get a taste of what is to come) but well, also a little to make it clear I sometimes worry about the full sim that will be released later on: I simply would like that one to be THE sim. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post

In case anyone still wondered if the upcoming DTG Flight School might offer an in-depth and realistic experience for us simmers: it won't. It will mainly be fun.

 

As opposed to P3D - where entertainment is banned.  :wink:

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post

I remember some 10+ years ago my then six year old granddaughter wanted to learn to "fly the airplane". I spent countless hours with her using FS9. I would have given anything to have had a sim around like what I think Flight School is going to offer. Will it teach me anything? Probably not. But I've been simming for over 30 years. Would it have taught my granddaughter anything? You bet it would have. Will it teach other folks sons, daughters, and grandchildren anything? You bet it will. I applaud DTS in this effort. Sometimes I think we all take this hobby a little too seriously. Maybe it's time to lay back and start a new generation of pilots.

Doug

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post

I'm sure DTG have thought carefully about their branding here and it made help if we followed their lead. Flight School is clearly a separate experience from the flight sim so perhaps we should keep the distinction clear on the forums.

 

Also I'm not sure I agree with the OP; it sounds like their might be stuff even "us simmers" could brush up on, although I'm sure we all hope the full sim offers a lot more than Floght School.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

I was thinking:

 

When Boeing update a version of an aircraft to next gen technology, I wonder whether real pilots take to forums fuming and say...... ' I can't believe they've just rehashed the flightdeck with a different layout of the same old switches and a few silly glass displays!  It's just the same rehashed technology, just slightly tweaked!   As for the engines, well, they're the same old stupid things that were hanging from the wings since the 1980s,  - they just look slightly different with some incremental thrust and a new cover!  I cant believe a company like Boeing think they can get away with selling the same old garbage to airlines, year in and year out! 

 

And as for those newbie start-up airlines, well they'll just buy it wont they!   THEY'RE THE REAL TARGET MARKET FOR BOEING!  NOT US BA PILOTS!

 

I GUESS WE'LL ALL JUST HAVE TO WAIT FOR VIRGIN GALACTIC TO BRING OUT SOMETHING REALLY NEW!

 

:smile:  :smile:

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post

I was thinking:

 

When Boeing update a version of an aircraft to next gen technology, I wonder whether real pilots take to forums fuming and say...... ' I can't believe they've just rehashed the flightdeck with a different layout of the same old switches and a few silly glass displays!  It's just the same rehashed technology, just slightly tweaked!   As for the engines, well, they're the same old stupid things that were hanging from the wings since the 1980s,  - they just look slightly different with some incremental thrust and a new cover!  I cant believe a company like Boeing think they can get away with selling the same old garbage to airlines, year in and year out! 

 

And as for those newbie start-up airlines, well they'll just buy it wont they!   THEY'RE THE REAL TARGET MARKET FOR BOEING!  NOT US BA PILOTS!

 

I GUESS WE'LL ALL JUST HAVE TO WAIT FOR VIRGIN GALACTIC TO BRING OUT SOMETHING REALLY NEW!

 

:smile:  :smile:

:Applause:

Share this post


Link to post

Just like with train sim, I do not understand why there can't be an option for the end user to decide? If I want to simulate building a full head of steam before my rail journey and go through all the hoops and check of making sure it does you should let me. If I want a casual, quick experience then adjust my slider setting and off I go. DTG I see you point but why make it one or the other?

 

In a world of infinite resources, time and money yes that would be the ideal. To create a game which is all things to all people. Unfortunately the world is not like that, hence game developers have to make decisions regarding what to include and what not to include. 

 

- Martin 

 

 

Maybe it's time to lay back and start a new generation of pilots.

 

We certainly hope so. If we can introduce this hobby, that we all love, to just one young kid and inspire a passion in them for it, then we will be happy. 

 

It is great to hear people say "oh I remember X,Y,Z on the C64. I loved that game. It got me started in flight simming." We all have stories like that. We hope that one day someone will be here on avsim, after we are all gone, saying the same thing about DTG Flight School. 

 

- Martin 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post

Hi all, I hav a 10 year old son and a 5 year old daughter that love sitting and watching me fly. When the dreaded " can i have a go " question rears it's head, it's like " you wouldn't understand and it's too hard to show you", well hopefully it will soon be " there you go, enjoy yourself ".

We have to remember that once us dinosaurs have gone, what will be left? empty virtual airspace? virtual aircraft grounded for life, rotting away on virtual tarmac?.

I'm buying it for myself also as I never really got my head round navigation, so here's hoping! 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

We have spent the last two years listening to existing and would-be simmers alike. We have been intent on discovering what keeps you all simming, and what stops those who would like to get into flight simulation from doing so. We have learned that flight simulation appeals to an incredible amount of people, but a lot of them find it too hard to get started with. It is our aim to reclaim and attract those would-be simmers, but in order to do so, we need to present flight simulation in a way that doesn't initially overwhelm them.

 

 

That is where Flight School comes in.  We wanted to create an experience which makes flight simming accessible to anyone who wants to try it. Doing this as a standalone release allows us to focus on tailoring the experience more at these players.

 

- Martin 

 

Sounds like a reasonable approach. 

Share this post


Link to post

DTG has always been clear since the start that Flight School might be interesting for us even, but it's not aimed at us.

We all started by doing silly things or not knowing well what we were doing. And our playerbase is not going to magically increase or stay the same either. Life happens, for the good or the bad of it. A steady flow of new people with an open and interested attitude towards Aviation is more than welcome.

As for expectations, i think ours are all focused on the Flight Simulator and not the Flight School. However sometimes questions overlaps because Flight School will use SOME of the modifications we will get to see in the Flight Simulator too.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, this may be a good app to bring in new "blood" (as well as perhaps teach old dogs new tricks).

I think its' important to keep attracting  new "players" - we all certainly want payware companies to keep churning-out new flight sim products - and they need to know it's going to be profitable for the foreseeable future...    

 

But like P3D, which has several different levels of flight training and sophistication, Dovetail may one day evolve to a more sophisticated training tool with RW parameters; who knows?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this