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Austin's thoughts on Oculus (Video)

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I81Sy1mTzw8

 

lol - As usual, Austin comes across as a bit of an arse to me every time I hear him actually talk in interviews like this.

 

He is incredibly dismissive of the current experience and it honestly isn't a very consistent analysis vs what Flyinside & DCS users are saying.  I think they should have dug a little deeper on options (like Flyinside), and Oculus tweaks to rendering rez I've seen discussed on Reddit, before giving such a strong opinion on the current situation.

 

Whatevs...wanted to share the link anyhow.

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Keep in mind he is making those comments from the a developer's point of view and so I agree with him.

 

I think it is still too impractical for a flight sim, but for a racing sim, I think it may work as you don't have to worry about dozens of buttons and switches like you would in a flight sim.

 

This technology is still in diapers, give it a few years and It will be something I would consider worth buying.

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His take on the current generation of hardware sounds about right to me (disclaimer: I don't own either the Rift or Vive, just going on other reports I've read), 

 

The games where it's really taking off are those like Elite: Dangerous where the starfield background and 3D objects are easy to render. Even there, I've heard complaints about being able to read the text displays and instruments. And that's a game where I think the UI was intentionally kept fairly basic. Elite can be flown with just HOTAS switches too, and you need a lot more than that for some flight sim cockpits. Think about what you'd need to manually control every switch on the new PMDG DC-6 cockpit. There is a basic need for either haptic feedback or at least some kind of virtual visible hand inside the cockpit.

 

But I still think resolution is the first big hurdle to overcome. We can barely get 60 frames per second on one monitor with the kind of world detail we like to see in X-Plane. VR needs something like 70 fps in each eye, to avoid motion sickness? We don't have GPU's that can render X-Plane at 140 fps yet. How far are we willing to strip down the world detail we're used to, for VR? I do think it's coming, it's just a bit early yet. 

 

P.S. Austin's controlling a helicopter with a twist joystick for tail rotor? C'mon, he must have rudder pedals under that desk, right?  :smile:

 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I81Sy1mTzw8

 

lol - As usual, Austin comes across as a bit of an arse to me every time I hear him actually talk in interviews like this.

 

He is incredibly dismissive of the current experience and it honestly isn't a very consistent analysis vs what Flyinside & DCS users are saying.  I think they should have dug a little deeper on options (like Flyinside), and Oculus tweaks to rendering rez I've seen discussed on Reddit, before giving such a strong opinion on the current situation.

 

Whatevs...wanted to share the link anyhow.

 

 

I disagree, I think you're being way too harsh. Everything he said seemed reasonable and I agree with all his points. But as you admit this seems like a very rough first impressions video so I wouldn't take everything he said at face value.

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I was expecting him to be worse honestly ha... also, he's at the video recorders computer, not his I gather, so that's why no rudder pedals I'd guess ;-)

 

Generation 2 or 3 of these HMDs should be great, but I too feel it's too early for serious sim usage.

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But I still think resolution is the first big hurdle to overcome. We can barely get 60 frames per second on one monitor with the kind of world detail we like to see in X-Plane. VR needs something like 70 fps in each eye, to avoid motion sickness? We don't have GPU's that can render X-Plane at 140 fps yet. How far are we willing to strip down the world detail we're used to, for VR? I do think it's coming, it's just a bit early yet. 

 

Considering this technology is extremely new, simply waiting for the all of the other hardware components to catch up while VR improves is not a bad option.

 

I know Laminar Research had worked on Rift support about 2-3 years ago, so they were interested in it at some point. 

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One of the problems I see in his review, is the depth of field. He has it set as if you were viewing the cockpit on a regular monitor. The idea, is to set it to what would be a more realistic position closer in and view the instruments by looking down. The limitation virtual glasses though, is you actually have have to look down, in the real world you may just have to adjust your view with your eyeballs. Now if Oculus could track eyeball movement,that would really be something.

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Good comments all.

 

I just didn't get the impression that Austin was coming to the situation from a neutral view of VR.

 

Very much felt like he'd made up his mind a bit without too much desire to tinker and see how far you can push the experience right now.

 

Just seems odd. Austin is VERY much a tinkerer, builder and experimenter normally.

 

I'm mostly "out" on VR for now (in flight sim), but I know for a fact it's much better than this video portrays. I've played with both headsets using flyinside and the rift in DCS. It's a better experience than Austin is portraying in my view. (I'm a real world GA pilot with extensive experience IFR, land and Sea)

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Good comments all.

 

I just didn't get the impression that Austin was coming to the situation from a neutral view of VR.

 

Very much felt like he'd made up his mind a bit without too much desire to tinker and see how far you can push the experience right now.

 

Just seems odd. Austin is VERY much a tinkerer, builder and experimenter normally.

 

I'm mostly "out" on VR for now (in flight sim), but I know for a fact it's much better than this video portrays. I've played with both headsets using flyinside and the rift in DCS. It's a better experience than Austin is portraying in my view. (I'm a real world GA pilot with extensive experience IFR, land and Sea)

 

Seems like this was a very quick and dirt demo. Would like to see his reaction using a good set up and proper simulator. I did enjoy his flying haha.

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I'm a complete pass on VR at this point.  The main reason, ignoring the fact that I personally feel that the tech just isn't there yet for a truly immersive experience, is that I use a ton of hardware. I love having an actual dial or a switch for darn near anything that I can make work.  So much so, that I've built whole switch panels just for flying a certain piece of equipment, such as recreating the overhead on a B206, for example. VR is opposite to that experience.

 

I'm personally more excited about the possibility of AR (augmented reality) as shown by MS's HoloLens. Being able to be surrounded by a virtual cockpit, but actually have my yoke and switch panels showing, now THAT sounds exciting. But, I think the hardware is a few steps behind in that area as well.

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Good comments all.

 

I just didn't get the impression that Austin was coming to the situation from a neutral view of VR.

 

Very much felt like he'd made up his mind a bit without too much desire to tinker and see how far you can push the experience right now.

 

Just seems odd. Austin is VERY much a tinkerer, builder and experimenter normally.

 

I'm mostly "out" on VR for now (in flight sim), but I know for a fact it's much better than this video portrays. I've played with both headsets using flyinside and the rift in DCS. It's a better experience than Austin is portraying in my view. (I'm a real world GA pilot with extensive experience IFR, land and Sea)

Don't forget he is not neutral to VR, Laminar spent lots of money and energy into getting VR working in X-Plane almost three times (each time occulus kicking them in the balls with completley changing the open gl driver and at last abbandoning it)  so they have their knowledge and probably multiple hours tinkering with it.  I guess you see here his condensed feeling over all those sessions in one quick video ;)

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My initial reaction to strapping an Oculus Rift DK2 to my face was "Really? This is what everyone's all hyped up about?" The resolution today is distractingly bad, the UI challenges are still being solved, sim-sickness is still a problem, and the hardware is clunky and uncomfortable. We've had as-good or better VR technology for decades; the only breakthrough here is the cost as we now have cheap phone displays that can be used.

 

There are ridiculous amounts of money being spent on solving all of those problems though, so in the long term, things may change. But we're not there yet.

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As much as I like better graphics and immersion in a sim...I will just never wear such a thing Shame%20On%20You.gif.
I'm too afraid it might fry my soul right away. 

 

Flo

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The Program/Sim needs to be created or adapted to be VR Friendly,DCS World has done this for Oculas Rify CV1

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I'm a complete pass on VR at this point.  The main reason, ignoring the fact that I personally feel that the tech just isn't there yet for a truly immersive experience, is that I use a ton of hardware. I love having an actual dial or a switch for darn near anything that I can make work.  So much so, that I've built whole switch panels just for flying a certain piece of equipment, such as recreating the overhead on a B206, for example. VR is opposite to that experience.

 

Right, and that's why we're seeing it taken up first with space sims like Elite and air combat sims like DCS. With a HOTAS system like the Thrustmaster Warthog I use, you never have to take your hands off the two primary controls while flying. With maybe one or two exceptions, there are usually enough switches for everything you need in flight and in combat. 

 

Civilian aviation is different, or at least it can be different depending on what you're looking for and how deep you go into the various systems. When I fly the X-Trident Bell 412 I have everything I need under my left and right hand HOTAS controls (and pedals), but I don't do cold and dark starts,  Someone who wanted to flip every switch in that helicopter would need more physical controls, or access to the keyboard and mouse. 

 

I'm personally more excited about the possibility of AR (augmented reality) as shown by MS's HoloLens. Being able to be surrounded by a virtual cockpit, but actually have my yoke and switch panels showing, now THAT sounds exciting. But, I think the hardware is a few steps behind in that area as well.

 

 

Yeah, that could be interesting. It could show the virtual view out of the cockpit only in the upper half of the visual field, while remaining transparent in the lower half so you can see your flight controls, keyboard, and any other hardware instruments and controls you have set up. You might need a large wraparound piece of black cardboard or something in the upper half, but I could imagine that working pretty well.

 

Interesting times ahead. I'm just afraid it's not going to arrive soon enough for me, because I'm not getting any younger and this tech has been in the "not quite there yet" stage for a very long time. 

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My initial reaction to strapping an Oculus Rift DK2 to my face was "Really? This is what everyone's all hyped up about?" The resolution today is distractingly bad, the UI challenges are still being solved, sim-sickness is still a problem, and the hardware is clunky and uncomfortable. We've had as-good or better VR technology for decades; the only breakthrough here is the cost as we now have cheap phone displays that can be used.

 

There are ridiculous amounts of money being spent on solving all of those problems though, so in the long term, things may change. But we're not there yet.

 

You have to realize though that the DK2 is crap compared to the retail version which has higher resolution and is better in every way (lighter more comfortable etc). Also using a Vive with the Controllers improves the experience drastically.  Personally i prefer it to the Occulus CV1 because using your hands helps the sim sickness alot. I used it for 2 hours and appart from beeing slightly uncomfortable and getting warm underneath the headset  (which is problematic when you use glasses, as they tend to fog up)  you get no sickness whatsover. 

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just because you havent done it with Xplane

 

As mentioned before in this thread, Laminar have done it more than once with X-Plane -- in fact they were among the firsts developers of a flight simulator to adapt to this technology.

 

 

But then Oculus has dropped support for OpenGL, so all efforts and time spent were wasted. :sad:

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As mentioned before in this thread, Laminar have done it more than once with X-Plane -- in fact they were among the firsts developers of a flight simulator to adapt to this technology.

 

 

But then Oculus has dropped support for OpenGL, so all efforts and time spent were wasted. :sad:

 

Laminar has to get off of OpenGL anyways.

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We he doesnt very consistent with his owm words. On this video, minute 5.50 he says its ######ing amazing. Come Austin just because you havent done it with Xplane you dont have to put others down.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pnYz9LpTTus

 

 

Great catch Melchor!

This video was less than 3 months ago!!

 

Quite the flip flop that Austin has done on this....almost "politician" like, sheesh..

 

Perhaps he really is feeling the burn about OpenGL as discussed above.

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Laminar has to get off of OpenGL anyways.

well they are toying with vulcan, but honestly before xp11 maybe 12 you wont see that becuase it is simply not profilic enough and alot of older cards dont support it

Great catch Melchor!

This video was less than 3 months ago!!

 

Quite the flip flop that Austin has done on this....almost "politician" like, sheesh..

 

Perhaps he really is feeling the burn about OpenGL as discussed above.

i dont see the the big contradiction everyone is talking about ?  In the original video at the 1 minute mark he says it is fascinating and he can see it beeing the future and is very positve about it. 

 

 

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i dont see the the big contradiction everyone is talking about ?  In the original video at the 1 minute mark he says it is fascinating and he can see it beeing the future and is very positve about it. 

 

5-6 minute area - Just seems awfully over the top excited about it which, to me at least, feels a lot different than the latest video with the same guy.

Remember, there was only a 2 month difference in when they did these videos...

 

Just seems like the "tone" changed an awful lot in that small space.

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well they are toying with vulcan, but honestly before xp11 maybe 12 you wont see that becuase it is simply not profilic enough and alot of older cards dont support it

 

Right, it seems the immediate roadblock for VR is that X-Plane has to support not just Windows but Mac and Linux too. So with no OpenGL support, and Vulkan still not widely supported enough, VR is temporarily dead in the water. 

 

Here's the last dev blog about the status of Vulkan for X-Plane in the near future: http://developer.x-plane.com/2016/03/what-vulkan-means-to-developers/

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The Guy asking the questionssays Flyinside has clunky interface. Made me laugh, thats one of the biggest complains people get about X-Plane.

 

Then Austin says he can see his hands. Well, Flyinside supports Leapmotion so you can see and interact with your hans.

 

Flyinside has virtual windows which obviously he hasnt tried yet.

 

Thirdly, even with my dk2 and P3d and the pmdg 737 I can complete whole flights on Ivao. So, yes you can read the instuments, maybe not in all planes.

 

I like xplane and hope they get support for VR. Just dont like the way they talk about such a good product like Flyinside

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Flyinside has virtual windows which obviously he hasnt tried yet.

 

What's particularly troubling about that is he actually literally talks about having virtual windows/interface in different directions and "seeing the possibilities/how cool that would be", etc..

 

Someone in his position really should be trying out the available options much more completely I think.

 

He almost comes across as a "Microsoft guy being forced to try out the 1-2 year old iPhone in 2008/2009 era".  Very biased against it, right from the start.

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