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Potroh

Serious ground layering bug in 3.3

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It seems the ground-scenery-layering, that has been working fine since FS2002, got mixed up somehow. Most probably it is related to the "Fixed custom z bias scenery flickering issues including runways and runway markings" fix.

All sceneries using the FSX type of solution (SDK2002) are effected by this problem.

 

Unfortunately it definitely gives a no-go for those having a lot of Aerosoft, UK2000, LHSIM and other sceneries.

 

To me it once again brings the question: how on Earth it could happen that none of the beta testers could notice this almost global-bug or problem, which is present with almost all add-on sceneries, but I don't elaborate on this, as my humble earlier mentions were not truly received very well...

 

Potroh

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Yeah, unfortunately noticed that as well. Had to go back to 3.2 as most of my sceneries flicker like mad, mostly at night.

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how on Earth it could happen that none of the beta testers could notice this almost global-bug or problem

My guess is that the beta testing is default everything, LM are not responsible to debug everyone else`s software.

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My guess is that the beta testing is default everything, LM are not responsible to debug everyone else`s software.

Agree. Frustrating for early adopters but you are the real beta testers when it comes to 3rd party add-on support. :)

 

On that note, P3D is better seen as a totally new sim with each update it seems. This means you go into it as if it had zero third party add on support and wait until each developer specifically releases or re-releases their product for the version you are running.

 

Same reason I will never upgrade, only full install to a freshly formatted system. Huge PITA for sure but peace of mind, error free system is worth the extra hours.

 

I wonder how much junk is being left behind in orphan files and the Windows registry when you update and roll back again on different versions of any software, P3D included....? Maybe a general slowdown in PC performance, occasional blue screen or random unexplained errors.....

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I wonder how much junk is being left behind in orphan files and the Windows registry when you update and roll back again on different versions of any software, P3D included....? Maybe a general slowdown in PC performance, occasional blue screen or random unexplained errors.....

 

If you take a look, basically... nothing (in P3D). The client installer replaces files and updates its registry entry - Clean exit.

 

My apps do exactly the same, remove old files, update them and, if required, update the registry entries. On uninstall everything is removed.

 

Then there is the TEMP folder, but you should regularly clean it up anyway.

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Hi,

 

Just about to install 3.3, is this problem isolated to legacy installers (migration tool used) or airports that have been updated to native installers. Just worried about my UK2000 airports that include a installer for P3D.

 

Kind Regards

 

James

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It seems the ground-scenery-layering, that has been working fine since FS2002, got mixed up somehow. Most probably it is related to the "Fixed custom z bias scenery flickering issues including runways and runway markings" fix.

All sceneries using the FSX type of solution (SDK2002) are effected by this problem.

 

If this should be a general problem, I will stick with v3.2. It is a "No Go", if addon airports such as the ones from UK2000 will no longer work with v3.3. Others reported flickering runway textures at night, missing ground textures and blurry ground.

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Imagine.. all those people screaming for 64-bit...

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Well, then you have to start at "zero" again with all your sceneries and aircrafts anyway.

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I wonder how much junk is being left behind in orphan files and the Windows registry when you update and roll back again on different versions of any software, P3D included

i`ve managed a few times to do a rolling update and found it was never as clean and smooth as a full install, that`s my regime now, i wait a few weeks and then jump on in with a vanilla setup, i never run too much add-on`s, have the basic FTX stuff, 1 or 2 fav aircraft and just focus on 1 area at a time with airports, uninstall them and move on to the next zone, i`m kinda over long haul now so stick to short hops and VFR, sim runs way better without 100`s of scenery's..

 

 

Others reported flickering runway textures at night, missing ground textures and blurry ground.

i would be interested to see if the flickering happens when using DSR 4K and no NI settings, that`s how i managed to kill all the Orbx z fighting and most of the default rwys as well, it might be the AA causing it and not the old texture style used with some developers!! not sure about the missing textures, this maybe due to using those new shader mod`s found here.

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Can someone confirm if this issue is correct for a fresh install - using UK2000 P3D installers.

 

Ive just had a new system - and presently building both FSX and P3D setups on it(which is only now I'm realising just how much money I've spent on add-ons) Im on day 3 of installing and testing!

 

I have p3D3.2.3 installed and Uk2000 working great with OrbX - but before I carry on installing any more add ons, or upgrade the client to 3.3.3 - I want to be sure this is an issue, i can see nothing been posted on the UK2000 Forums.

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I am installing it latter today.

 

I only use default stuff, so, no big deal for me anyway...

 

Only concern for me were some references to problems with VAS, but I've seen at least one post saying all is OK in this area too...

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If the problem is connected to use of SDK2002 in scenery development I wonder if a "quick fix" is even possible.

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Maybe i am wrong but they already metion that they will drop the code for fs2k ground poly since 3.0.

Unfortunately this method could suck up to 10 fps instead of adapting the new zbias.

For developer view it's a problem because they need to adapt the ground in 3d to follow the terrain.

The old solution there was no need as it would bend with the code.

Believe or not the need to drop the old code is necessary to gain fps and vas.

The old scasm is the past and all developer need to update for the future that will add new material as fsx and use 4k texture.

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My guess is that the beta testing is default everything, LM are not responsible to debug everyone else`s software.....

 

.....but (IMO) they are responsible for notifying addon developers if they change something as significant as this. Heck, this version 3.3 seemingly came out of nowhere. How many people here actually knew that it was going to be released at the start of this month?

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My guess is that the beta testing is default everything, LM are not responsible to debug everyone else`s software.

 

If it's done that way, it is wrongly done.

LM's lead developers has expressed several times in different interviews how much they try to keep compatibility as long as possible.

 

If the beta phase were done thoroughly, there should be at least one or two testers, who look for problems like this one.

 

As it is not an intentional move to remove the 2002-SDK methods, it's just a glitch, I'm certain they will find a very simple and easy way to fix it.

 

 

 

Maybe i am wrong but they already mention that they will drop the code for fs2k ground poly since 3.0.

 

Nope. They've dropped the FS2004 SDK's conditional jumps and not the even older ground-layering.

 

Potroh

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Could you please advise which specific sceneries have been affected

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.....but (IMO) they are responsible for notifying addon developers if they change something as significant as this. Heck, this version 3.3 seemingly came out of nowhere. How many people here actually knew that it was going to be released at the start of this month?

 

They are not. I am pretty sure that those sceneries making troubles now are not officially released with an installer for Prepar3d v3. Now, if people like us starting to install those sceneries into Prepar3d v3 using either the available migration tools or other tricks (even if it is simply giving the prepar3d folder as installation path instead of the fsx folder...), we can certainly not complain if LM changes something that renders those sceneries incompatible. However, if it is a simple bug, I am sure it will be removed by a hotfix or workaround. No reason to panic...

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If it's done that way, it is wrongly done.
LM's lead developers has expressed several times in different interviews how much they try to keep compatibility as long as possible.
 
If the beta phase were done thoroughly, there should be at least one or two testers, who look for problems like this one.
 
As it is not an intentional move to remove the 2002-SDK methods, it's just a glitch, I'm certain they will find a very simple and easy way to fix it.
 

 

How can they beta test with all the major add ons, when patches to make some add ons even work with an new update, sometimes take weeks before they are released. ? 

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They are not. I am pretty sure that those sceneries making troubles now are not officially released with an installer for Prepar3d v3.

 

I will reserve judgement until Gary Summons responds with respect to the P3D versions of his UK2000 airports.

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How can they beta test with all the major add ons, when patches to make some add ons even work with an new update, sometimes take weeks before they are released. ?

 

No need to test all major add-ons in a case like that.

Simply a few of them and it should have become obvious that the problem was global or general.

 

Simply because there was an announced change into the Z-bias method, it should have been checked how the change affected the majority of sceneries out there.

 

Potroh

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LM has been very clear and has done a lot of the ground work to make it easier for Dev's to create products that are completely compatiable with P3D. It is clear that P3D is moving forward. Yes they seem to try to not break existing add ons but we can not have it both ways. The flight sim of the future is not going to exist if LM has to built it out of parts and code from the past. This hand wringing and whinning comes with every new version. If you are having problems then notify LM and the software dev and as has always been the case, a solution will be found. No one cares if you are reverting to FS-1945 because your thing- of- a-ma-bober don't blink anymore with P3D 3 point what ever.

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i`ve managed a few times to do a rolling update and found it was never as clean and smooth as a full install, that`s my regime now, i wait a few weeks and then jump on in with a vanilla setup, i never run too much add-on`s, have the basic FTX stuff, 1 or 2 fav aircraft and just focus on 1 area at a time with airports, uninstall them and move on to the next zone, i`m kinda over long haul now so stick to short hops and VFR, sim runs way better without 100`s of scenery's..

 

As do I safe approach imo

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If you take a look, basically... nothing (in P3D). The client installer replaces files and updates its registry entry - Clean exit.

 

My apps do exactly the same, remove old files, update them and, if required, update the registry entries. On uninstall everything is removed.

 

Then there is the TEMP folder, but you should regularly clean it up anyway.

I would add "in·shal·lah"

 

Chas...a bit skeptical..

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All along, LM has been stating that while "trying to keep compatibility", they are moving forward in developing a platform that can be easily accessed by developers. Something that is consistent and doesn't break the add-on with every release. Along the way, there WILL be steps taken that will render *some* add-ons incompatible until changed.

 

Realistically, LM is building the platform for the future, it is the responsibility of the developers to adapt to THAT platform, not for LM to adjust for the benefit of the developers. There will always be gray areas and some dev's will fall through the cracks. It will be up to the dev to adjust their code to fit P3D - once done, they hopefully should not have to do it again.

 

So, somewhere down the line, we will have LM's modular platform with the dev's following their guidelines and all will be well.

 

Vic

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