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briansommers

how much wood do you burn in a wood stove in Alaska cabin?

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If you stay in one of those tiny cabins in Alaska in the dead of winter.

 

How much wood would you burn per 24 hrs in the dead of winter?

or how many days would one cord of wood last?

 

 

now what about propane, kerosine or fuel oil

 

how many gallons would you need for one night?

 

 

Thanks

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Just enough for the water basin not to freeze.  Why don't you figure it out?

 

DJ

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I'm interested to see what the next topic of questions are.

 

So far we've covered:

 

How much to start a charter company

Are charter flights random

How much wood we need to for a cabin to burn in a night

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So next it will be how deep to go for a geothermal well!

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or How long is a string???

 

I heat entirely with wood burning stove and cut down my own trees so I would say I go through 20 to 30 kilos of wood in a day during the dead of winter. But I live in New Zealand and not Alaska and a cold winter day here is 12 degrees Celsius or somewhere in the 50's in Yankee Fahrenheit Measurements 

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Is there a way to calculate this? Please tell me the formula. That is why I'm asking.

I want to deliver firewood to the cabins but I need to know how much wood would last so I can make realistic amount of trips with realistic amounts of weight so I can simulate this as close to reality as I can.

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Is there a way to calculate this? Please tell me the formula. That is why I'm asking.

I want to deliver firewood to the cabins but I need to know how much wood would last so I can make realistic amount of trips with realistic amounts of weight so I can simulate this as close to reality as I can.

Sorry, Brian, but that doesn't make any sense!

Flying wood to an alaskan cabin is as useful as bringing water to a well... Why should one fly wood to cabinsee that are usually located in the woods?

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Figure fuel oil, that is something that they do haul.

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How much wood would last.

This reminds me of the famous question.

 

How much wood, would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

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This reminds me of the famous question.

 

How much wood, would a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

 

But how long to skin the woodchuck and turn it into a stew? 

In all seriousness, there may be too many variables to get a satisfactory answer to the OPs question, and kudos to him for his pursuit of realism.

 

For example:

 

  • What kind of wood is it (some woods can weigh more than others)?
  • How quickly does it burn?
  • How aggressively will the recipient use it up (i.e. do they keep the fire low and steady or do they like it to roar?)

In my experience, but this is with a living-room fireplace, what we call a "log" i.e. a lump of tree 6" or more in diameter and about 12" long will burn for an hour, maybe two, depending on whether the fire is just burning quietly or is really stoked up. I've never weighed such a piece of wood, though, so I couldn't help with that, but if you went out and got one you could stick it on a kitchen scales and see.

 

Alternatively, base your calculations on one of those shop-bought, paper-wrapped, "fire logs". Which are usually good for two hours and the weight will be on the packet.

 

When our house starts lighting fires this year, I'll be happy to provide more data if you still need it, but that's usually not until December.  :smile:

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Is there a way to calculate this? Please tell me the formula. That is why I'm asking.
I want to deliver firewood to the cabins but I need to know how much wood would last so I can make realistic amount of trips with realistic amounts of weight so I can simulate this as close to reality as I can.

 

Clearly, all of these posts are a wind up.   

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Hi Brian.

 

Here's a site which has a kW calculator for different sized rooms in different types of dwelling. There isn't an option for log cabin but I took 'uninsulated' as being representative. I don't know what size an average cabin is ( nor even if there is such a thing) so I took a single room of 30' × 30' × 12' for illustration.

 

That would need 32 kW

 

*** ***

 

The Forestry Commission have a pdf on the calorific value of oven dry wood with a short section about wet wood. Find it here.

 

After a year, air-dried hardwoods are likely to have 30 - 35% water content, dropping in the UK to about 25% after 3 years of outdoor covered drying. On the continent where the air is usually drier that can drop to 15%, similar to UK indoor dried logs.

 

In Alaska, burning fresh softwood I'd guess you could expect 50 - 65% water depending on species but if you're delivering 3-year seasoned hardwood from a reputable bulk supplier you could probably go for 25% water content.

 

You'll see from the chart on page 1 of the FC pdf that wood is wood is wood when dry. The calorific value of a 'log' depends more on density so if you're delivering by the tonne you won't have to worry about differences between species.

 

There's an indication on page 5 of the pdf of how moisture content affects calorific value.

 

So if your well dried wood gives 3200 kWh per tonne (1-year air-dried hardwood) and you need 32 kW then a tonne will last for 3200/32 hours or a little over four days of burning round the clock. If your clients are out during the day it will last a lot longer...

 

*** ***

 

That's just an illustration and undoubtedly very inaccurate. I don't own a cabin, or live in Alaska, or even own a wood-burner. Adjust the figures as you see fit.

 

Best regards,

Dave

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Brian,

 

One other thing to think about; FAA gets really stink-faced when it comes to transporting LP gas in a Part 135 Aircraft... as in NOT! You can do Heating Oil in steel drums, but not Propane. Gasoline? Well, OK...

 

Backcountry homesteaders out in the Bush will do their own Firewood, so hauling it isn't profitable.

 

If you're outfitting & re-supplying the folks who live in the sticks, most of the time you'll be doing pop and chips runs, taking peeps to the MD or DDS, or hauling out meat (moose, caribou, etc.).

 

I would say the amount of Wood one needs to burn is proportional to the person's perceived Comfort level, and the Quality of both the Stove & the Flue system...

 

BTW... what are you planning to fly?

 

Alan  :smile:

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Formula which has passed several initial thresholds of testing within acceptable limits of variation, sampling incomplete given absence of data from 2 frozen testers:

 

DFO (km) x MOY - ADH ©

LAT X AHDS - PG (LE) x AMSL

 

DFO (distance from ocean)

AHDS (avg hrs daily sun), PG (LE) Price of Gold, London Exchange

 

I wish I could be more accurate :smile:

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I was reading on an Alaskan website that listed all of the cabins for rent and most of them list firewood under items to bring.

 

I thought you are not allowed to chop down trees where the cabins are because of preservation, yes?

 

this site: http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/cabins/index

 

http://dnr.alaska.gov/parks/cabins/matsu#&panel1-1&panel2-1

about mid way down:

It is highly recommended that you bring your own firewood, dead and down trees are scarce in the area. Cutting live trees is illegal within the park.


Interesting note about the not being able to haul propane under 135 - that really puts a bug in the ointment. How am going to get it out there then (virtually speaking)?

 

So if I have a client that is building a cabin in the woods lets say and he wants propane heat, He can't "hire" me to haul it out for him? I could haul out the empty tank correct?


-------------

What I'm really trying to simulate is running people/tourist etc. out to their cabins that they rented and then supplying them when/if they need food or other items.

AND

running building supplies out to the boonies for people who want to build their own cabins, etc.

 

Aircraft?

Cessna 206

Cessna 208 Super Cargomaster

Twotter

Cessna 404 - maybe gut a fiew of these for cargo? probably not

and F406

BN2B Islander - I was watching a youtube video of a pilot who uses one of these to haul building supplies in Idaho, I think it was with McCall http://www.mccallaviation.com/backcountry-charters.html

 

Metroliner III ??

 

I only fly payware so it's got to be that.


--------------------------

 

 

 


Clearly, all of these posts are a wind up.   


Erich Berner

 

Sorry, I don't follow.....??

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Max Ward of Wardair used to haul logs strapped under the wings of a Beaver if I recall to build log cabins, one under each wing pointed forward into the wind. It was a risky thing to do. He also used to fly building materials up north in Beavers and Otters. Those old bush pilots have probably tried just about everything.

I would say if you were going to fly firewood, logs would probably be easier and it could be cut down to firewood after delivery

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Scott,

 

The examples I provided were RW scenarios regarding Propane, and for existing Homesteaders living in the AK wilderness.

 

Of course, if we're talking the 'virtual skies', then all bets are off; if it's the Customer's dime, then haul whatever you want!

 

The 'typical' bundle of Firewood that one can purchase @ your local 7-11 or Tim Horton's weighs about 15 lbs., and can last anywhere from a night to a couple of Hours, again depending on the amount of Heat, Light and 'comfort level'.

 

For grins, a 50# bottle of Propane weighs about 40 - 45 lbs. to carry; 100# bottles are too clumsy to Load upright in the back... you'll have to lay them down & secure them tightly, if that'll work for you.

 

The operative word here is 'Virtual'... of course, in the RW the folks at the local FSDO would have a conniption if they found out you were hauling LP gas in your Sled. But, you can rest assured that at one time or another, Bush Pilots hauled many things, some of which may be considered 'questionable' in this day & age.

 

But look here... you've got Clients to take care of, and you're probably a pretty good judge about Wx and your flying abilities. If your Clients need it, give it to them! If the Ramp Inspector shows up right before you turn the Ignition key, just shrug your shoulders and say "It's all above Board, pal", and Taxi out!

 

Heh heh...

 

Alan   :smile:

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if distilling down this far a price/cost (break even) analysis would also be in order. Costs of sourcing the wood, possibly preparing (cutting and splitting), labor cost to load, fuel and hourly aircraft associated costs, any landing and parking costs if not in/out of private strips, and labor costs of unloading, any ground movement costs, at customer's end. That vs what the customer is willing to pay. 

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That's the thing.. if you don't haul propane in the real world then I don't "do" it in flightsim either.

 

That's what this is all about, trying to do it as close to the real world as possible. 

 

In my mind, it's little things like this that can take your simming and notch it a little further into realism.

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Scott,

 

Totally understand where you're coming from... the thing that draws the FAA's ire about Propane is its pressurized nature, as opposed to Oil or Gasoline, which can be transported in a pressure variable Container (gas).

 

Wherein you could transport the empty Propane Tank, how would the Landowner fill it in the future? I presume he lives away from any roads, so trucks couldn't come to refill the Tank once it's placed... and, if LP could be airlifted, it's very inefficient to feed a big Storage Tank from a bunch of little ones.

 

That is interesting about supplying your own Wood... like Scott said, small Logs would be the best option, but they'd have to be loaded inside the airplane... External Loads, FAA, Bitter Beer Face, you know the drill.

 

Love you're using a BN-2... they're not seen as much in the Bush anymore, but the guys who flew them swore by them.  You might also consider having a single like a Husky or Supercub in your stable; if your flying Scenario calls for servicing tourists and homesteaders, a Husky is a nice change of pace from flying the sleds, and you can still jam enough supplies to keep everyone happy, and keep you in good stead, with good bush cred! LOL

 

Alan  :smile:

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Max Ward of Wardair used to haul logs strapped under the wings of a Beaver if I recall to build log cabins, one under each wing pointed forward into the wind. It was a risky thing to do. He also used to fly building materials up north in Beavers and Otters. Those old bush pilots have probably tried just about everything.

I would say if you were going to fly firewood, logs would probably be easier and it could be cut down to firewood after delivery

I saw Beavers with canues strapped onto the swimmers. So I am sure one could strap logs to the swimmers as well. That should be much less stressful to the aircrafts structure than strapping it under the wings...

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Just Google "bush plane external loads" and look at the Images... Mountain bikes, ATV's, 4 x 8 sheets of Plywood, Moose antlers... now, go back to 'All', and scroll down the page to the .pdf called "N 8900.272". That'll give you the skinny on External Loads...

 

:spiteful:  :unknw: 

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