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Gregg_Seipp

What helps with the sensation of speed on landing?

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Somebody brought this up recently.  Sometimes when landing, especially big-iron, it's like you're floating slowly into the airport even though you're at 140 knots.  I have feeling it has something to do with textures and detail...as more detail comes into view your eyes sort of realize that you're closer to the ground and moving faster.  As grass and pavement get more defined, etc.  What, if anything, do you do to cause it get a better sense of speed?

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I'm not really sure, that there's anything wrong with the sensation of speed in flight simulators. 

 

To put it simply, driving 30 mph in a Fiat 500 feels hell of a lot faster, than 30 mph in a bus.  :wink:

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Two words: Wide view.

 

You need a triple monitor setup to really feel the speed (An ultrawide monitor helps as well). 

 

And bigger is better. Sense of scale is important. 

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Somebody brought this up recently. Sometimes when landing, especially big-iron, it's like you're floating slowly into the airport even though you're at 140 knots. I have feeling it has something to do with textures and detail...as more detail comes into view your eyes sort of realize that you're closer to the ground and moving faster. As grass and pavement get more defined, etc. What, if anything, do you do to cause it get a better sense of speed?

I've actually compared this from sim to real life. Usually when flying in airliners I get a window seat and using my phone video tape the landings. I've them flown the same thing in the sim and viewed from the wing view and compared to my video and the sense of speed seems about the same to me.

 

I think that when your in the air going 140 kts it just doesn't look that fast because you don't have trees and building whizzing past you like you would if your going 140 kts in a car on the freeway.

 

I've watched some YouTube airline cockpit videos of landings and they don't look much different as far as sense of speed either compared to landing in the sim.

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I think that when your in the air going 140 kts it just doesn't look that fast because you don't have trees and building whizzing past you like you would if your going 140 kts in a car on the freeway.

 

I've watched some YouTube airline cockpit videos of landings and they don't look much different as far as sense of speed either compared to landing in the sim.

 

It is fast, I can tell you. You really feel the speed when you're in the cockpit and buzz the roof of buildings and pass cars on the street when landing. YouTube video - or any video - will not give you any sensation of speed unless they film it with a multiple camera setup (IMAX etc.) and you watch it on a wide cinema. 

 

Human field of vision is about 180 degrees, although just a tiny bit of that is in focus, you can see and feel the movement going on in the out of focus areas. To get any real sense of speed in the simulator, you simply need to have monitors that enables you to see things as close to real life as possible. That means field of view as close to 180 degrees as possible, and the size of the screens need to be so that what you see on screen is as close to 1:1 in scale to the real life objects at a "neutral" zoom setting. A neutral zoom setting means that distances in front of you aren't compressed or exaggerated.

 

George, you should borrow a couple of monitors and try it for yourself. 

 

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Have you ever sat in a real cockpit at a 140 knot approach speed?  If you have, you wouldn't have asked this question. 

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Got to agree with Bobsk8.  It's a really a matter of the human brain playing tricks because it has no reference points to judge speed.

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You could always try leaving the gear up Gregg! :P The sense of speed at 6 inches above the runway looks quite amazing.

 

LOL

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As someone else already suggested a couple of VR glasses such as Oculus Rift and the FlyInside software will increase the immersion both when it comes to speed but also in every other aspect in the most amazing way!

 

Personally I never got myself anything for the flight simulator that increased the sense of immersion and realism more than these VR glasses.

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The sense of speed and depth perception come from your peripheral vision.   

 

blaustern

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Somebody brought this up recently.  Sometimes when landing, especially big-iron, it's like you're floating slowly into the airport even though you're at 140 knots.  I have feeling it has something to do with textures and detail...as more detail comes into view your eyes sort of realize that you're closer to the ground and moving faster.  As grass and pavement get more defined, etc.  What, if anything, do you do to cause it get a better sense of speed?

fly X-Plane 11

 

C

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Somebody brought this up recently.  Sometimes when landing, especially big-iron, it's like you're floating slowly into the airport even though you're at 140 knots.  I have feeling it has something to do with textures and detail...as more detail comes into view your eyes sort of realize that you're closer to the ground and moving faster.  As grass and pavement get more defined, etc.  What, if anything, do you do to cause it get a better sense of speed?

Real sense of speed, depth, height, the size of your aircraft - as some posters noted VR is where it's at. I use Rift with Flyinside.

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Real sense of speed, depth, height, the size of your aircraft - as some posters noted VR is where it's at. I use Rift with Flyinside.

 

The sensation of speed is how close you are to objects you are moving past. In an airline sim, which I have flown at a Airline Training center, on final approach, there is nothing that close to you on short final, so you don't seem to be moving very fast even at the 140 knot final approach speed and these sims cost around $30 million dollars and are designed to convince the pilot that they are flying the actual aircraft. Same in real life, when you are landing a GA aircraft, you are not that close to anything on approach, so it doesn't seem you are moving very fast. I have landed on a 30 foot wide runway in Florida, and during that approach, it seemed I was flying much faster than usual, but still not as fast as when I am in a car   going the same speed driving in traffic.  Here is an F15 landing in Anchorage. Doesn't look much faster than when I land my T6 in P3D.  

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Sense of speed in this case is called ground rush. It can only be seen with a decent zoom. If you have a 16:9 screen your zoom should be set to 81%

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Bob, I respectfully beg to differ. I sit in the jumpseat of B737s  quite often, and things are moving pretty fast on takeoff and approach.The only way to simulate this at home is to have a wide view at proper zoom setting - even with an ultrawide cinema screen, a triple monitor setup or even better, a curved projected image on a large canvas. 

 

You can be pretty darn close to a lot of things in a GA aircraft, especially at the smaller strips. While training for my PPL from Orlando Country Airport I was overwhelmed at the speed of things in a C172 - and moving to a Piper Aztec was really frightening, mostly because of the increased speed. It was a narrow strip, with lots of parked aircraft close to the runway, and a busy road just west of the runway. We did a lot of hops to Orlando Executive, and it is a rush as well. You fly over a busy urban jungle from all angles. When flying the "Shuttle Approach" over at Kennedy Space center we felt like the aircraft was hovering. That is  a seriously huge runway, but even that runway feels fast when you're close enough to the ground.

 

Using a youtube video to show how the perception of speed is while sitting in the cockpit of a real aircraft is totally useless... 

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When I went from one 25" display to three 27" displays the world of speed and immersion really kicked in.  Add in Track-IR and three Buttkickers... well, hold on to your hats!

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Bob, I respectfully beg to differ. I sit in the jumpseat of B737s  quite often, and things are moving pretty fast on takeoff and approach.The only way to simulate this at home is to have a wide view at proper zoom setting - even with an ultrawide cinema screen, a triple monitor setup or even better, a curved projected image on a large canvas. 

 

You can be pretty darn close to a lot of things in a GA aircraft, especially at the smaller strips. While training for my PPL from Orlando Country Airport I was overwhelmed at the speed of things in a C172 - and moving to a Piper Aztec was really frightening, mostly because of the increased speed. It was a narrow strip, with lots of parked aircraft close to the runway, and a busy road just west of the runway. When flying the "Shuttle Approach" over at Kennedy Space center we felt like the aircraft was hovering. That is  a seriously huge runway, but even that runway feels fast when you're close enough to the ground.

 

Using a youtube video to show how the perception of speed is while sitting in the cockpit of a real aircraft is totally useless... 

 

 

Got around 500 hours flying 172 and piper warriors and never had the sensation that I was really moving fast. The sim I flew in had 5 projection screens creating the image ( about $400,000 worth of projectors and screens) ( I trained people on the projection systems), and still didn't feel like the movement was that fast, but this is sitting in the pilots seat rather than in the rear of the flight deck which could possibly make a difference. 

 

here is footage of a 737 landing and this is about what I see when landing the NGX in P3D..     

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Got around 500 hours flying 172 and piper warriors and never had the sensation that I was really moving fast. The sim I flew in had 5 projection screens creating the image ( about $400,000 worth of projectors and screens) ( I trained people on the projection systems), and still didn't feel like the movement was that fast, but this is sitting in the pilots seat rather than in the rear of the flight deck which could possibly make a difference.

here is footage of a 737 landing and this is about what I see when landing the NGX in P3D..

 

I think we're talking about differences in perception here.  When I look at that video of the 737 it seems fast to me.  I've not been getting that sense of speed much in the sim much.  My thoughts are that it's a combination of the following:

  • Detail of objects with known size like cars, grass, buildings trees, runway markings, tire marks.  As you perceive the size in combination with the detail you get a perception of how close you are to the ground which gives a sense of speed. 
  • Relative speed to other moving objects like cars and trains.  The smoothness of both the sim and the movement of the objects would be key for this.
  • Peripheral vision speed of objects.  I don't take what the VR folks are saying lightly.  I also think about zoom level vololiberista mentions might help.
  • I also notice how the vibration of the aircraft adds something to it

 

 


Sense of speed in this case is called ground rush. It can only be seen with a decent zoom. If you have a 16:9 screen your zoom should be set to 81%

 

I'm going to try this.

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The video above has no peripheral vision so no ground rush. IFLYII had it because their zoom setting was better than MS. In the same way OMSI2 drives better than Fernbus. Because the view is more correct.

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If you have a 16:9 screen your zoom should be set to 81%

 

Er, why?

 

!

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Er, why?

 

!

Because it increases the field of view. Ground rush is a factor because of peripheral vision. Which in MS sims is almost non existant because zoon is set as 1.

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Because it increases the field of view. Ground rush is a factor because of peripheral vision. Which in MS sims is almost non existant because zoon is set as 1.

Or going ultrawide B)

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