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Is that person using FS2004? 

We simmers who are not pilots are just big hobbyist dreamers.  Real thing is real thing.  Excellent video.  Thank you for the share

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7 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Link doesn't work for me, sorry.

 

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I agree with the comments at the end. We are missing environmental feedback (gusts, updrafts downdrafts, all those good wind events you experience flying over KMMU and KCDW during the summer). FLying for real made me a better sim pilot and they complimented each other during flight training (for me at least).

 

One last thing: eBaying the equipment he had wasn't paying for very many flight lessons. I'd still be flying if the costs weren't so high...

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27 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Link doesn't work for me, sorry.

Same here, on Firefox latest.

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That was a great take on an oft-discussed notion among flight simmers, cheers for posting it. Personally, confidence/panic aside, I think most flight simmers could get an aircraft on the deck and walk away from it okay, but as that guy found, it might not be as pretty as their thousands of sim landings; it's not quite the same as sitting there with a nice cup of tea and a pause button.

I can remember singing 'the Deadwood Stage' to myself loudly in the cockpit on my first solo to pick my senses up a bit (bizarre choice of tune I know, but that was what came into my head to make me feel more confident lol), my first ever solo landing was a bit high on initial approach but I sideslipped it down and sorted that out, so it ended up okay. I recall too that I was bursting for the loo all the way through that first solo too; that was because I had just landed a dual flight, where unbeknown to me, my instructor was weighing up sending me off on my own, so I was gonna go to the loo after we landed. That's when my instructor said: 'think you can do that again on your own?' and I knew if I buggered off all the way to the loo (which was bloody miles away there and back since it was a massive airfield) and then came back to the aircraft, I'd have been a bit more nervous, so I thought, screw that, let's go for it. That's the other thing with sims, you can hit pause and go to the loo! :laugh:.

So there's my cool flying tip if you are doing real lessons and suspect you are gonna get sent solo that day - make sure you go to the toilet first lol.

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26 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Same here, on Firefox latest.

See my post above, I posted a working link.

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Biggest difference of all is that we simmers don't have the old Reaper riding in the back seat wearing that snide grin of his just waiting for you to just once " screw the pooch."

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24 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

See my post above, I posted a working link.

Thanks, Kevin. You just beat me before I spotted your link.

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The Gadget show did a "similar" thing back in 2010. Ortis was tasked with learing how to fly a solo circuit in a 172 via some intensive training (8 weeks) on a high end simulator. Thanks for the working link!

http://www.tvthrong.co.uk/2010/11/the-gadget-show-22/

Not quite the same timescale or objective for this guy but still an achievement which no doubt made for good TV :)

Edited by HighBypass

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My favorite thing is when, during boarding, someone pops their head in the cockpit and says "hey guys, I'm a C172 pilot here, seated in 32D if you guys need anything." 

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Well,

it was great to watch!

My experience was opposite - I started flying for real almost 12 yrs before I started using flight simulators more seriously.

When you fly for real, your brain is trained to react to the visual cues more effectively even in a flight simulator. The better your controller hardware and flight simulator the better.

I have said this many times, and I repeat - some skills I developed in real flying were fine tuned in the flight simulators, and surprisingly this included, although not only, recovery from "upset" situations... and also some basic aerobatics ( in glider ). I used Silent Wings and Condorsoaring for that, and it worked great and provided a good training for the execution  of the maneuvers IRL - actually better than the experience that flying with a certified aerobatics instructor brought me... The AS-K21 was, of course, a great school too ( for the aerobatics ).

 

 

 

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When I first flew there was an incredible difference between the sim and real flight.  The basics were the same and I knew the instruments, but the way the air moves around you is something that sims just can't do.  You have to get a feel for the aircraft to handle it well.  Then there are all the comms going on around you, the sky seems crowded indeed.  Flying for real is like a juggling act, all the senses are involved.  That's why I switched to trikes, easier to fly.

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I got my PPL while still in my teens and flew regularily for 7 years before other things in life crowded out the flying. I found my way into simming around the late 90s.  Yesterday I hired an instructor and a C152 for one hour and piloted a real plane again for the first time in 35 years. It was amazing to be back behind the controls and feel the aircraft again. Even with all the simming and my distant past flying experience, I felt like a fish out of water for the first bit. The seat of the pants feeling and the effect of the wind and turbulence on the aircraft were a bit overwhelming at first, but as the flight progressed everything started to feel familiar. After a scenic flight around the area we had time to do 2 touch and goes followed by a full stop landing. There was a moderate crosswind and lots of convective heat bumping us around but by then it all felt very familiar and all 3 touchdowns were smooth and on the center line. I felt pretty elated after being away from it for so long.  

Clearly, the big difference with desktop simulation and real world flight is the feedback the body gets from the aircraft, controls and environment. There is really no comparison.

I do believe having experience flying an actual aircraft enhances the sim experience, because our brain helps fill in some of the missing elements based on our actual experience.  Simmers who haven't had the oportunity to pilot a real aircraft, likely miss out a little in that respect.

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As others have rightly said, approach and landing is very much different.  The wind, even a small wind moves you around and even light variable winds can keep your hands busy.  FSX and Prepar3d have almost none of that variability.  Even trying to create it by setting gusty, variable wind gives odd results...you start to see the mechanics of how the sim manipulates the air every 1 second and it's not realistic.  Better just to leave it alone.  (You'd think they'd make a vector field of wind that you'd be flying through but, I digress.)  On landing, you have so many visual clues...peripheral vision, textures of the runway and of the grass.  If you had VR and 60+ fps with crisp textures, you might get close but I don't have VR and seldom get 60 fps.  You also get gently jostled around which you very much see when someone's trying to hold a camera still and the airplane is being nudged around. 

Having said all that, things do keep getting better and better.  The A2A Comanche has one of the nicest flairs I've seen (I don't have it...but I've watched it carefully compared to real world video...really spot on) and there are others that are excellent.  I, generally, fly the airliners more, these days since bigger airplanes aren't affected as much by all this so it seems a bit more realistic all the way down to the smaller transports like the J41 (which was a hoot!).  I still do like flying the smaller airplanes but I have the same sense that something important is not there...like it's always a morning on a high pressure day with little wind.  Still fun, still nice to be up, but not as realistic as it could be.  Someday a sim will have realistic wind and that will be a great time indeed.

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45 minutes ago, turnandbank said:

I got my PPL while still in my teens and flew regularily for 7 years before other things in life crowded out the flying. I found my way into simming around the late 90s.  Yesterday I hired an instructor and a C152 for one hour and piloted a real plane again for the first time in 35 years. It was amazing to be back behind the controls and feel the aircraft again. Even with all the simming and my distant past flying experience, I felt like a fish out of water for the first bit. The seat of the pants feeling and the effect of the wind and turbulence on the aircraft were a bit overwhelming at first, but as the flight progressed everything started to feel familiar. After a scenic flight around the area we had time to do 2 touch and goes followed by a full stop landing. There was a moderate crosswind and lots of convective heat bumping us around but by then it all felt very familiar and all 3 touchdowns were smooth and on the center line. I felt pretty elated after being away from it for so long.  

Clearly, the big difference with desktop simulation and real world flight is the feedback the body gets from the aircraft, controls and environment. There is really no comparison.

I do believe having experience flying an actual aircraft enhances the sim experience, because our brain helps fill in some of the missing elements based on our actual experience.  Simmers who haven't had the oportunity to pilot a real aircraft, likely miss out a little in that respect.

That is an excellent point you make. It should be the goal of all simmers to try and get into the air once in a while. I think it does go a long way towards filling in the missing elements.It's been a while for me and I think I will look into it in the fall. I do not need a refresher flight to remember how hot the ramp gets here in NW Florida during August. LOL

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What a fantastic thread this has been so far.

Simmers with R/W experience of being behind the controls of a real aircraft coming to the fore. Excellent. Hats off to you guys.

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1 hour ago, shivers9 said:

That is an excellent point you make. It should be the goal of all simmers to try and get into the air once in a while. I think it does go a long way towards filling in the missing elements.It's been a while for me and I think I will look into it in the fall. I do not need a refresher flight to remember how hot the ramp gets here in NW Florida during August. LOL

Definitely need money and time, but I have done this once.

 

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Hello everyone, I have my PPL and currently training for my CPL/ATPL. I agree with everything you guys have said. The factors that stand out the most for me is human performance and physical factors. Most of these were pointed out but for example flying a C172 while you are parallel to the runway and beginning to flare there is a point while you are holding the yoke back with some back pressure and you begin to feel the aircraft to "fall" so you put a tad bit more of back pressure really trying to grease the landing. You won't feel that in any flight sim unless it's a professional sim on hydraulics which airlines use and companies that offer type ratings. Same idea when practicing stalls you can literally feel the aircraft stop flying its an incredible feeling. Basically all seat of the pants flying you won't get in the sim.

Human performance is another huge factor in real flying compared to sim flying. In real life there is just so much more going on. Comms,traffic,birds, obstacles, etc... I know some of these things are in sims but it's just not the same. Another human performance factor that stands out is how you react to meteorological conditions. Winds, thermals, turbulence, etc in real life these really have an effect on you that in a sim you won't experience. Try navigating  with your VFR charts out, writing down times, constantly verifying your position, checking engine parameters, tanks, fuel consumption, etc with turbulence, variable winds or strong thermals rocking you side to side or up and down. Trust me it affects your performance whether you like it or not( obviously with more experience you get use to it) especially for us pilots that may get nausea easier than others. 

I have to say though flight simming is terrific for studying instruments, procedures, failures, and even a general feeling of how aircraft behave. There are some great addons out there! I do agree that once you have flown in real life at the command of an aircraft it enhances your flight simming and vice versa as well. 

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28 minutes ago, vc10man said:

Impressive, Capt Kev.

Here's the return trip. As you can see, I taxi like a drunken monkey.

 

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Btw - I didn't see the simmer asking the instructor - where is the CTRL-E to start the engines - lol

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3 hours ago, shivers9 said:

It should be the goal of all simmers to try and get into the air once in a while.

If you can budget for it, it certainly is. I certainly won't wait 35 years again. The end goal doesn't have to be getting your pilots license. You can just book an hour with a good instructor once and a while.  You'll learn alot, have an amazing time and help your imagination fill in the gaps when simming.

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