Boeing or not going

Autogen disappearing... caused by unlimited frames?

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I get missing autogen sometime in a flight and on approach it never comes back, but only after setting my fps to unlimited in the p3dv4 menu. Locked at 30, never disappearing autogen. Is this a bug in p3dv4?

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Same thing here with unlimited frames.  Ground textures also blurry at times

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3 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

Same thing here with unlimited frames.  Ground textures also blurry at times

I thought affinity mask manually setting caused it, but on my computer, unlimited fps gives me disappearing autogen. I am looking at Matt Davies' stream replay and he landed at EGLL and had no autogen either. Couple days ago he changed settings to in game unlimited fps and nvidia inspector locked at 30 using 30 refresh rate on his monitor. That got me noticing my disappearing autogen also using unlimited fps. Back to locked at 30 for me and maybe I'll play around in the affinity mask again.

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The same thing happens in 3.4.  I think the sim is so busy generating frames it doesn't have enough time to display autogen.  I locked my frames in sim at 31.

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The system will devote maximum resources to maintaining FPS and what's left goes to other tasks. If your system struggles to maintain the FPS then the other parts suffer.  I believe that P3D, more than any prior sims really must be tuned to SMOOTH performance at the lowest fps that gets you there. I am locked at 20 and it's smooth. I could also lock at 30 and it's still smooth BUT why should I? I don't get points for extra wasted fps do I? So with fps at 20 and being smooth, that lets me crank up the eye candy a bit more with no penalty.

Stop thinking FPS - you want a great, smooth flight experience - if you can get it at 20-30 do you really care?

Remember high fps doesn't mean smooth just high numbers that could have stutters.

Vic

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I you use fast sync instead of vsync via nividia panel you wil notice autogen popup with fps limited but with unlimited FPS Fast sync is better than P3D vsync and can produce smoother experience with fps variation...

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22 minutes ago, Virtual Flight Realm said:

I you use fast sync instead of vsync via nividia panel you wil notice autogen popup with fps limited but with unlimited FPS Fast sync is better than P3D vsync and can produce smoother experience with fps variation...

Fast sync? I have never heard of this. Learn something everyday 

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3 hours ago, mpw8679 said:

Same thing here with unlimited frames.  Ground textures also blurry at times

Are you talking about photoreal ground textures or regular textures? Because I only find that photo textures seem t get blurry while the normal ones are sharp.

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Same here. Only Photoground tends to get blurried and only if I fly fast and low. I also do not see autogen disappearing, not after 2-3 hours so far (the longest flight I did), and I use both unlimited FPS (but limited via nVidia profile inspector) and an AF setting. I also do not observe anything like: "it tries to maintain FPS at the cost of other things like autogen". If I fly from a rural airport to a heavy one, my FPS drop down from almost constant 36FPS (thats my external limit) to 20-25FPS, but without disappearing anything. Strange...

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4 hours ago, vgbaron said:

The system will devote maximum resources to maintaining FPS and what's left goes to other tasks. If your system struggles to maintain the FPS then the other parts suffer.  I believe that P3D, more than any prior sims really must be tuned to SMOOTH performance at the lowest fps that gets you there. I am locked at 20 and it's smooth. I could also lock at 30 and it's still smooth BUT why should I? I don't get points for extra wasted fps do I? So with fps at 20 and being smooth, that lets me crank up the eye candy a bit more with no penalty.

Stop thinking FPS - you want a great, smooth flight experience - if you can get it at 20-30 do you really care?

Remember high fps doesn't mean smooth just high numbers that could have stutters.

Vic

+1

The only time you need 30 FPS is if you use TrackIR, it needs the fps, P3D does not, I run 22.

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Old discussion. As soon as you are used to shooter games on a 144Hz monitor (as I am...), you can simply smile about the statement: "as long as it is smooth, 20FPS are sufficient". My issue: if I use unlimited, I still have 20-25FPS on a major hub like Schiphol. If I put whatever FPS limit (60, 31, 30, 25... all tested), I reproducably loose 10-20% FPS and I am down below 20 on those heavy airports. Bummer. Because when flying VFR low and slow in FTX Regions, I almost constantly have 30FPS or more and I could easily lock at 30FPS without losing any FPS. Just not when flying into hubs...

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2 minutes ago, AnkH said:

Old discussion. As soon as you are used to shooter games on a 144Hz monitor (as I am...), you can simply smile about the statement: "as long as it is smooth, 20FPS are sufficient". My issue: if I use unlimited, I still have 20-25FPS on a major hub like Schiphol. If I put whatever FPS limit (60, 31, 30, 25... all tested), I reproducably loose 10-20% FPS and I am down below 20 on those heavy airports. Bummer. Because when flying VFR low and slow in FTX Regions, I almost constantly have 30FPS or more and I could easily lock at 30FPS without losing any FPS. Just not when flying into hubs...

I think that is due to the FFTF default value, when you run unlimited its ignored but when you lock your frame rate internally the FFTF is calculated which means the program forces itself to spend more time rendering at the expense of FPS.

You can alleviate this effect by adding a nominal FFTF value in you cfg file, I used to use 0.17 because anything lower would result in bad blurries, as usual YMMV!

 

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Correct,

You can try 0.01

I use 0.10

With no FFTF your setting is 0.33, what that means is 1/3 of every second is allocated to loading textures. A FPS hit, adding in a FFTF sorts that problem out.

But you get the better texture loading as you PC is not trying to give you 30-40-80 fps all the time.

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Ok, I will try that one. But basically I am happy with my current setup, I see almost none of the described issues except the shadow bug and actually I should enjoy flying instead of switching to a limited FPS setup again with some tweaking in addition. But if I ever experience autogen loss, I hopefully think about this thread again to try the limited FPS approach. Thanks for the heads up!

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Many of you is achieving got results with 20-22fps in P3D which i fully understand as i also had simular results on a dedicated 1080P Monitor back in 2016 with V3.

As of 2017 i am on a Philips 4K 49" TV which can run 4K at 23,24,25,29,30,59,60 HZ.

Anyone knows why TV is not that smooth vs the above 1080P monitor without VSYNC ?  I tried 23,24 and 25 HZ and for reasons i dont understand 25HZ gives me the best smooth experience off all three. (also 1-2 fps more offcause but totally without stutter)

As soon as P3D VSYNC gets blow 25fps the stutter starts immediately.

Thanks

Michael Moe

 

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1 hour ago, kand said:

I think that is due to the FFTF default value, when you run unlimited its ignored but when you lock your frame rate internally the FFTF is calculated which means the program forces itself to spend more time rendering at the expense of FPS.

You can alleviate this effect by adding a nominal FFTF value in you cfg file, I used to use 0.17 because anything lower would result in bad blurries, as usual YMMV!

 

Sorry  just to understand,

For instance If i would Lock at 25FPS the FFTF should have more time to load textures (0.33 by default) as i dont need FPS ?

FFTF is 0.01 when running unlimited FPS?

 Sadly when i lock 25FPS i have stutter even though the FPS is at 25FPS all the time

Thanks

Michael moe

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Fast sync is the new alternative to vsync. This option is availble for owners of Nvidia GPU gtx 900 and +. If you are one these happy owners, you should give a try, but with fps unlimited and vsync option off in Prepar3D. Try and report ;)

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What I don't understand is that, if I lock, my rates drop at some airports more than if I stay unlocked.  For, instance at KORD, unlocked and sitting on a runway, I may have around 35 FPS.  If I lock at 31, I drop to 26 or so.  You would think that I would at least get the locked rate of 31 since I can get more than that unlocked.

I was always led to believe that unlocking forces the sim to attempt to get those higher rates at the expense of other things that it should be doing.   So, at some basic airports, I'm getting over 100 FPS - but at what cost in scenery loading, traffic generation, weather depiction, etc?

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The same for me. I don't know why, probably the internal fps limiter is buggy since long time, because also with v2 and v3 people used nVidia inspector to lock frames.

If you want to try an alternative fps limiter, use MSI Afterburner with Riva Tuner (and keep unlimited fps ingame of course).

Personally, after many experiments I managed to get rid of autogen and black texture anomalies (never had blurries) with the following settings:

- Fast Sync in nVidia 3D settings

- unlimited fps and Vsync off in Prepar3D settings

- TEXTUREMAXLOAD=30 and TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=160 in Prepar3D.cfg

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Each system is different and each persons eyesight and visual requirements are different. Nevertheless the physics of the sim remain - you are seeking a balance. Tune YOUR system to the lowest fps where you can maintain SMOOTH performance across the type of flying that you do. That WILL give you the optimum situation for visuals and performance. Running unlimited works fine in many cases but the CPU is always trying to push higher - sooner or later it will struggle and that gets passed down the line.

For those that run unlimited, look very closely at the FPS counter, I also believe that FSUIPC has the ability to graph fps and watch the yoyo. If you're going from 100 to 45 to 75 to 35 to 100 to 60 .......etc - you are building in issues right there.

Again, each system is different, find the balance for your system and just enjoy the flight.

ANKH - I agree with you re first person shooters but P3D is not even close to that scenario and typically, setting up a P3D/FSX as if it were usually results in issues. FPS titles usually have a very small but intense and detailed world to deal with - flight sims are much larger in scope.

Also FTFF valid ranges are 0.10 to 0.99 - anything outside these ranges is ignored and the closest number is used. There is no difference between 0.01 and 0.1

Vic

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I don't understand how you guys are able to have smooth panning in VC at fixed 22 or 30 FPS. Ar you talking about smooth flight or smooth panning ?

With my 60 Hz monitor, all below 60 FPS is not smooth at all (the flight is, not the view panning). I have to stay above 60 FPS to have smooth panning on a 60 Hz refresh rate monitor. If you are using 30 hz refresh rate monitor I understand.

My questions for all of you saying having a smooth experience at locked FPS below 60

1. Do you have smooth flight and smooth view panning ?

2.Are you using a 60 Hz monitor ?

Thanks !

Mike

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6 hours ago, Michael Moe said:

Sorry  just to understand,

For instance If i would Lock at 25FPS the FFTF should have more time to load textures (0.33 by default) as i dont need FPS ?

FFTF is 0.01 when running unlimited FPS?

 Sadly when i lock 25FPS i have stutter even though the FPS is at 25FPS all the time

Thanks

Michael moe

Yes, the theory is when you run unlimited, the FFTF is discarded although that may appear to be incorrect because of other experiments where an FFTF of 0 means the sim fails to render autogen! 

When you lock within P3d, either the default 0.33 FFTF is used (hence the frame rate drop) or if you have set the FFTF to its lowest setting 0.10 you will see FPS comparable to running at unlimited up to whatever you locked at.

I was playing around with it this morning as I have been getting blurries so wanted to give more time to the fibres 

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Mike -I use a 40" 4K monitor as main with a 28" for secondary programs. I use TIR and have it smooth flying and panning with or without TIR.  I'd say better than 90-95% of the time it's perfect - every now and then I'll get a glitch, a stutter, a pause or a popping something but it's rare enough not to be bothering and not worth the effort to track it down.

And FWIW, there are some days when I boot the system and it's really a stutter fest. I just shut it down, count to 10 and start up again and all is well.

Main thing IMHO is not to get hung up on a number - adjust and tune to YOUR desired visuals and performance. Get it as smooth as you can in both flight and panning and get the fps as low as you can  and still maintain in your specific flight profiles.

Vic

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1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

 FTFF valid ranges are 0.10 to 0.99 - anything outside these ranges is ignored and the closest number is used. There is no difference between 0.01 and 0.1

Vic

You sure Vic?

FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION (default is 0.33 or 30% of the frame time).
MIN_FIBER_TIME_SEC (Default is 0.001 or 1ms)
MAX_FIBER_TIME_SEC (Default is 0.1 or 100ms)

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