OldFlyboy

VR is great but it's not my thing

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Inside the cockpit it is truly wondrous. I felt that I was back inside some of the planes I've flown. However, I cannot manage a long flight with the gear. As fascinating as VR is I'm back to plain old flight and my full Oculus Rift/Touch combo is listed in the For Sale forum

Neal Howard

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Got to agree with you. VR in current state does one thing VERY well...simulate the visual sensation of flight. This is very powerful and satisfying in the short term.

However, VR in its current state falls VERY short of simulating a more complete pilot experience that includes ATC, use of charts, etc. and other aspects unrelated to the strictly visual sensation.

Edited by Henry Street

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Agreed that the various tasks like chart reading is problematic, but I cannot totally ditch the technology. The feeling of being there is, like you said, truly wondrous. I do both, and enjoy flying both ways. VR is likely here to stay, and as it remains, it will only get better. This situation is not unlike when the first PC's started to hit the stores in the 1980's - not very popular at first, but I had to have one. I used pen and paper at that time too, but now using pen and paper is quite rare. VR could turn into "holodecks" eventually, and its neat to be a part of the holodeck ancestry. 

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I heard the same reaction when virtual cockpits started to appear: “not really intended for serious simmers”, “difficult do read”, etc. Let’s see how it turns out this time. :)

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1 hour ago, Henry Street said:

Got to agree with you. VR in current state does one thing VERY well...simulate the visual sensation of flight. This is very powerful and satisfying in the short term.

However, VR in its current state falls VERY short of simulating a more complete pilot experience that includes ATC, use of charts, etc. and other aspects unrelated to the strictly visual sensation.

Have you watched Laminars' most recent presentation on their proposed VR implementation in 11.10?

Have a look at the second video on this page;

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/130527-latest-sticky-1110-beta-due-soon/&page=2

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I also keep in mind that VR is essentially about a year old (that's about when the oculus first arrived) and as usual, flight simulation is near the bottom of the barrel as far as implementation of the technology.

Pretty much, the days of Flight simulation being on the cutting edge are gone, and it's probably going to be a while before simulation catches up with this technology; most especially if we are mostly using sims that are in no way shape or form designed to take such tech in mind, and are essentially shoehorning in the tech.

In the meanwhile, it's probably a catch 22. Developers will ignore the tech until it reaches critical mass, and it will take much longer to reach critical mass if users don't see developement of things to satisfy their needs. (Vr charts, etc)

And round and round it goes.

As usual, it's the military sims that are running with this stuff, and DCS, IL2, War Thunder and etc leave "pure" simulation in their dust in almost every regard, here.

It might end up being left to Aerofly, Flyinside simulator, Remex, and others to be the future of this technology for flight.

 

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I tried the rift last year as well in P3D for two weeks and I also returned it in the end and bought a 34" Ultrawide monitor. I think no-one disagrees that the future is in VR. The sensation and feeling of dimensions can't be reproduced in a monitor. However while its the way to go, I can't say the time is now. In my opinion a good monitor is far better for the serious simmer. One problem is how to read charts fast. Another is how to read the displays and gauges. If you are not in FS just to enjoy the feeling of flying, but you like to take it seriously and fly by the book, you need to monitor your instruments continuously. The resolution of VR right now is not sufficient to resolve these indications. You need to lean-on the instruments to see for example your exact airspeed or any other instrument or panel indication. That is very unrealistic and not practical to me. In a monitor you have in a glance a reading of any instrument indication instantly, like in real life. Also, in VR when looking out in the distance I could not make crucial details for any flight, like where is the runway or even where is the airport. When we have a headset with at least a 2K equivalent resolution and hardware can support it for the high fps needed in VR, then it will be the time to transition. 

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Have to agree with everything said here.

Although the extra-sensory world of the rift is enticing, my 55 inch curved screen at 4K with TrackIR does it (half-way) close enough for me, for now...

That will change as the next evolutionary enhancements in computerized substitutionary reality becomes readily available.

Ultimately VR will win the day.

Until then...

Kind regards,

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1 hour ago, J.L.Seagull said:

Have you watched Laminars' most recent presentation on their proposed VR implementation in 11.10?

Have a look at the second video on this page;

https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/130527-latest-sticky-1110-beta-due-soon/&page=2

Encouraging for sure. All that head movement likely to cause vertigo :-)

Real world pilots and real world military pilots will tell you, they are routinely making notes and cross referencing materials while flying. Even tablets have not replaced this functionality in cockpits.

No doubt VR technology will catch up to deliver a much fuller simulation of pilot experience but honestly I don't see it happening in the hobby community any time soon. Hobbyists are generally not trying to replicate real world pilot experience (or at least not trying the parts they don't like :-) )

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I am a fan of VR and, as I said several times in many post here, I was making virtual cockpits when all others were flying panels and telling me I was a bit daft, and I used LCD widescreens when all others laughed me out of the forums saying the tube is forever. Sure the first steps are ragged and rough but hang in there and in a year or two most of you will be flying in VR.

VR has it's  place in flightsims but not yet in the airliner pit,,more in the open cockpit, seats of the pants pit. I use it for the open cockpit Waco and use the 65 inch curved monitor for my heavies. 

I also use VR for other things such as racing games and open world games. 

It does have a problem though, the two friends I let try it took it off after a few minutes after becoming a bit ill. You have to use it like your in a real plane, or car. Just sit there and look ahead like normal because any fast turning movements to look behind  you or around you can initiate motion sickness. 

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Is VR a bit like when 3D was the "new" best thing to happen for movies. No manufacturer of TV's would put a new model on the market without 3D, and look where it is today. I did some photography in 3D and it really gives a new dimension to it, but the fact that you have to put 3D glasses on everytime you should see them, made it a no no for me. So is VR out a little too early, and people not ready to invest in it yet. And can that hold developers back in making new an better (and cheaper) devices/glasses to be a fully integrated thing for flightsimming?

I have unfortunately never tried VR, but would really like to see what it feels and looks like with a flightsim, but as it is now (from what I have read and heard), it won't be a thing for me to invest in yet.

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 3d was a fad, a gimmick to sell more TV's and now Samsung does not even make a 3d TV anymore. 

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I had and tried an OR CV1 but sold it after a month. It was terrible! Is it the future? Probably but it certainly is not here yet with the current versions. Give it another 5-10 years and I think it will probably start to dominate

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A flat monitor is very dull and boring for me, except for making videos and taking screenshots.

 

I fly b y the seat of my pants, anyway, my instructor used to put his hand in front of the instruments and make me use the sun for direction, and feel in my butt when the plane was ready to fly.

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15 hours ago, warbirds said:

It does have a problem though, the two friends I let try it took it off after a few minutes after becoming a bit ill. You have to use it like your in a real plane, or car. Just sit there and look ahead like normal because any fast turning movements to look behind  you or around you can initiate motion sickness. 

I think I would be heartbroken if VR made me motion sick. Hearing some of the stories, and seeing some of the near instant reactions from some friends, I feel very lucky.

Interestingly enough, absolutely none of the kids I have let try my VR rig seem to have this issue, and take to it like fish to water.

Whereas I as I said, have had several adults nearly instantly wobble away, dazed and looking for a dramamine.

Hmmmmm......

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I am one of the lucky old guys that, so far, does not get sick using VR. It is interesting that young people handle it better than us old dudes. 

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9 minutes ago, warbirds said:

I am one of the lucky old guys that, so far, does not get sick using VR. It is interesting that young people handle it better than us old dudes. 

Well isn't it because we are born with a high clock rate that gradually decreases with age? You must have been delivered as an overclocked model Paul.

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10 minutes ago, warbirds said:

Overcooked maybe :)

Not too crispy. :laugh:

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My analogy has always been that human beings start out nuclear powered, but end up with passive solar... (sitting on a porch, soaking up the sun)

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45 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

My analogy has always been that human beings start out nuclear powered, but end up with passive solar... (sitting on a porch, soaking up the sun)

Well, that's a cute way of looking at it, HyFlyer. :biggrin:

So long as VR keeps improving it will be good enough for everyone in the end. Need VR contact lenses, I hate wearing goggles.

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From my experience flight simulation in VR for now only worth for VFR, when i tried the first time P3D with flyinside my feeling was that i will never go back to 2d, but that feeling changed when i first tried to made my first IFR flight with the Airbus, being on that cockpit is awesome, but is a stress to use the FMC, read charts, and you cannot use any other external addon like EFB for example... Nevertheless in VFR , that have o lot less to do in the cockpit, playing in VR is priceless, nothing like being on that downwind having the perfect sense where you are relative to the runway...

The present status for me is waiting for the release of flyinside for P3d V4(is going to be released after this last announced update for P3D v4) and the native VR support for x-plane 11..Probably im going to do the first pilotedge certifications on one of these 2 :)

 

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You want immersion try the Alabeo Waco. Open cockpit flying is amazing in VR. 

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Hi guys, 

I think a lot of posters haven't given VR a proper chance. When I first tried, it was a great novelty but I couldn't complete long flights. 

You need to stick with it to get your 'VR' legs. And you absolutely must be getting good frame rates - nothing that dips below 45 frames per second. If you do, you'll probably dislike it. Orbx and PMDG are not really viable, at least for beginners.

How to get your legs in P3D v4:

  • Good computer, very good video card.
  • You MUST drop settings, to get a smooth 45 or 90 frames per second (on the CV1). Choose simple scenery - I use photoscenery, custom objects at airports, avoid large airports and mainly fly GA. 
  • Blow a fan on your face (airflow). Keep the room cool.
  • As soon as you feel sick - stop. Increase a little each day.

I think I flew for six hours total yesterday, 1-2 hours at a time, no problems at all. Best thing I've ever done in the world of simulation, outstanding.

Oh, and I did do a few PMDG NGX/777 flights yesterday as well - they're possible, with a bit of tweaking.

 

Cheers!

 

Rob

 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

You need to stick with it to get your 'VR' legs. And you absolutely must be getting good frame rates - nothing that dips below 45 frames per second. If you do, you'll probably dislike it. Orbx and PMDG are not really viable, at least for beginners.

And that's what I meant in one of my earlier posts. At the moment, it's actually considered as an accomplishment to get "30 smooth frames a second", but that's definitely not gonna cut it with VR, and absolutely not if you also attempt to use high supersampling to get the clearest apparent image in a given legacy sim. (unreadable text/instruments and stutters stutters stutters)

Asynchronous timewarp does its best to try to smooth things out fps-wise, but generally what we are trying to pull out of our legacy sims is right on the borders of possibility.

I think/suspect that's why you see so many dedicated P3D/PMDG/Tubeliner types, whose setups are already straining in 2D, finding it a bit unsatisfying when switching to VR and then also having to make the compromises to get it to work (at all) in 3D and ending up with an intriguing, but eventually underwhelming experience.

Maybe in the end, it might require the eventual retirement of ESP ( Yes, I know that's practically blasphemy) before the hobby can move into a future that can truly take advantage of new technologies.

Normally I would tell people to give DCS a shot, to see what things could be like, but there's a fairly strong bias against military sims, so I suspect we will have to wait for Flyinside sim and others to really show the community the true possibilities and potential. (in regards to vr)

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