59 minutes ago, BrianW said:

Where did you get these values from?

I got the data from Boeing and EADS own airport planning data documentation for the performance of the aircraft in hot and high conditions, so if the data is wrong, which I doubt since it is from the people who actually make the aeroplanes themselves, then you can blame them lol. I normally go off such airport planning documentation for performance because manufacturers aren't gonna blag those figures for a sales brochure; they've gotta be honest on those ones lol, i.e. a bit like when jet fighter manufacturers say their plane can do Mach 2.5 and then neglect to mention that it can't when carrying external stores and it will use up all its fuel in less than ten minutes if it does so. It's what the things can do for real which really matter.

To be fair the conditions are sort of unusual and not typical of most airport operation, being more representative of somewhere really hot and high, such as Mexico City (MMMX) which sits at over 7,000 feet AMSL. Sometimes helicopters cannot even get airborne from Mexico City in hot weather, and it's tricky for aeroplanes too, which is why they have some fairly long runways which are nearly 13,000 feet, i.e almost two and a half miles, which is pretty big. Although sometimes even runway length won't help, since especially in hot temperatures, the tires on airliners are limited to a certain speed, and that is a factor in those manufacturers charts too.

So, specifically, for the distances I stated, the conditions were: airport elevation: 8000 feet, aircraft weight: 117,000lbs, engines equipped: CFM 56 rated at 22,000lbs SLST, weather conditions: standard day plus 27 ⁰ Fahrenheit.

fslabs have been adding features for all the flight simmers that love playing passenger rather than pilot. like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing. pmdg have from day 1 modeled a complete FMC. pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody.

I'm going to load up my 747 II and turn off shadows. I think I kept the aircraft ones on. 

turn down my Autogen, etc. and see if I can get it to be descent.

5 hours ago, Chock said:

I got the data from Boeing and EADS own airport planning data documentation for the performance of the aircraft in hot and high conditions, so if the data is wrong, which I doubt since it is from the people who actually make the aeroplanes themselves, then you can blame them lol. I normally go off such airport planning documentation for performance because manufacturers aren't gonna blag those figures for a sales brochure

Well I can tell you that I’m just not seeing a 2274’ difference between the two when using the Airbus and Boeing takeoff calculators with identical perf data.  So it makes me wonder if the Airbus airport planning data is only the ground roll.

 

In reality they are both very competitive. Contrary to your statements the 737 has undergone many aerodynamic improvements (including substantial wing design changes with each new version) over the years, it isn’t the same aircraft as it was in 1967.  Even when it comes to operating costs they’re very close and some airlines that operate both see lower costs in their 737s.

8 hours ago, 777200lrf said:

pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody.

I have nothing against PMDG, I used their planes myself in FS9 and FSX. But your statement is very interesting from a simmer's point of view.
Would you mind sharing how you know that? How exactly do you know their systems are more accurate than FSL's, Majestic's, Leonardo's, A2A's, etc?
 

8 hours ago, 777200lrf said:

like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing

So real pilots fly manually all the time? Most airliner pilots i know enable autopilot shortly after 400 feet AGL and wont turn it off before minimums, except the odd special visual approach

11 hours ago, 777200lrf said:

fslabs have been adding features for all the flight simmers that love playing passenger rather than pilot. like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing. pmdg have from day 1 modeled a complete FMC. pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody.

I am going to politely disagree with this statement.  I would say the majority of the people that I see post flights on youtube are looking for a cinematic effect, regardless of the type of plane they are flying (PMDG, FSLabs, Q400, etc.). They do views from wing, galley, outside, so on and so forth.  To say that FSlabs have been adding features for simmers that want to play passenger and not pilot is wrong.  I would say they are at minimum equal to, if not beyond, realistic and accurate flight simulation of the real thing than any other sim on the market.  Besides, real world pilots activate and deactivate autopilot at around the same time as I have seen youtubers do as well. 

13 hours ago, 777200lrf said:

fslabs have been adding features for all the flight simmers that love playing passenger rather than pilot. like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing. pmdg have from day 1 modeled a complete FMC. pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody.

1) "fslabs have been adding features for all the flight simmers that love playing passenger rather than pilot"

Do you own the FSL A320?

With a few 1000's hours in PMDG NG, and around 400 in the FSL I find it to be no less an engaging aircraft than the NG or PMDG 777. 

2)  "like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing."

I have yet seen an SOP for any NG 777 747 A320 that says to hand fly it over the normal AP highs. Does lufthansa allow there 777 to be flown differently?

If you are on the topic of hand flying then the FSL A320 is a dream to hand fly, I always hand fly it on an interesting SID up to around 10,000. The FBW is truly amazing.

3) "pmdg have from day 1 modeled a complete FMC."

FSL MCDU was modeled on a older version on release, but now has s4 and s7 versions. 

4) "pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody."

I agree no one does better NG's 777's 747's than PMDG but "accurate simulation of the systems" FSL are on a new level we have not seen before as you should know if you own it?

But please inlight us with your insight to why you feel the 777 or Ng has better!

Back on OP

Q400 is best for FPS

12 hours ago, 777200lrf said:

fslabs have been adding features for all the flight simmers that love playing passenger rather than pilot. like all the youtube and twitch streamers that activate the autopilot after gear up and gear down right before landing. pmdg have from day 1 modeled a complete FMC. pmdg is giving you an accurate simulation of the systems better than anybody.

No, FSLabs have been adding ALL the features that pretty much any type of simmer would want.

The ones like you say that just want to "play passenger" rather than pilot.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving them those features.

The ones that want to fly a study level sim.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us the most in depth aircraft to date.

The ones that want to fly an aircraft the way it's flown in real life.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that. 

The ones that want a "complete FMC".  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that.

So, you're right in that statement that FSLabs is giving the flight simmers that "love playing passenger rather than pilot" all they want.  You are right.  But they are also giving every other type of simmer EXACTLY what they want too.  This IS by far and away the MOST complete add on from any perspective that you want to look at it from.  It gives us ALL we could want.  All the bells and whistles.  And all the system fidelity.  It is PMDG but to a whole new level.  They are PMDG but with an immersion factor that PMDG has yet to completely hit.

29 minutes ago, klamal said:

No, FSLabs have been adding ALL the features that pretty much any type of simmer would want.

The ones like you say that just want to "play passenger" rather than pilot.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving them those features.

The ones that want to fly a study level sim.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us the most in depth aircraft to date.

The ones that want to fly an aircraft the way it's flown in real life.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that. 

The ones that want a "complete FMC".  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that.

So, you're right in that statement that FSLabs is giving the flight simmers that "love playing passenger rather than pilot" all they want.  You are right.  But they are also giving every other type of simmer EXACTLY what they want too.  This IS by far and away the MOST complete add on from any perspective that you want to look at it from.  It gives us ALL we could want.  All the bells and whistles.  And all the system fidelity.  It is PMDG but to a whole new level.  They are PMDG but with an immersion factor that PMDG has yet to completely hit.

Well, the OP asked for the airliner which is best on framerates.

And by giving us all that you listed FSL seems not to be the best in that regard. Which is totally understandable looking at the depth of the simulation.

But there might still be some simmers for whom it is more important to get a decent framerate allowing for other eye candy than to have an aircraft simulated into such a depth that they will never use all the features.

 

 

Any thread with a "vs." in it should just lock automatically.....lol.    always devolves to this back and forth.  And two "vs." should set off an alarm.  

26 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Well, the OP asked for the airliner which is best on framerates.

And by giving us all that you listed FSL seems not to be the best in that regard. Which is totally understandable looking at the depth of the simulation.

But there might still be some simmers for whom it is more important to get a decent framerate allowing for other eye candy than to have an aircraft simulated into such a depth that they will never use all the features.

 

 

Oops.  Sorry about that.  You are right.  I didn't go back to the first topic but just jumped in the middle again.  So, right, based on that point alone, then the PMDG stuff would win on my system too.  The FSLabs, while being the best, most complete simulation out there, IMO of course.  You do of course have to pay a price for that.  And that's where PMDG would then get the nod too.  Apologize for my first reply being out of context.

43 minutes ago, klamal said:

Apologize for my first reply being out of context.

It wasn't out of context. You were replying to 777200lrf, not the OP.
And your reply was factual and constructive. Thanks for it!

2 hours ago, klamal said:

No, FSLabs have been adding ALL the features that pretty much any type of simmer would want.

The ones like you say that just want to "play passenger" rather than pilot.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving them those features.

The ones that want to fly a study level sim.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us the most in depth aircraft to date.

The ones that want to fly an aircraft the way it's flown in real life.  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that. 

The ones that want a "complete FMC".  They are happy because FSLabs is giving us that.

So, you're right in that statement that FSLabs is giving the flight simmers that "love playing passenger rather than pilot" all they want.  You are right.  But they are also giving every other type of simmer EXACTLY what they want too.  This IS by far and away the MOST complete add on from any perspective that you want to look at it from.  It gives us ALL we could want.  All the bells and whistles.  And all the system fidelity.  It is PMDG but to a whole new level.  They are PMDG but with an immersion factor that PMDG has yet to completely hit.

Man... you are good...

Do you work for FSLabs? They should hire you to be on their sales team.

Sorry, but FsLabs will never be to the same level as PMDG, pmdg is is clearly superior in aircraft modeling and textures.. the fact is, the last full plane that PMDG released was back in 2013 (777). If PMDG were to release a new aircraft now, it would smoke the FSLabs and make it look like the little toy airplane you make from legos. 

Sigh, this topic has gone off the rails.

To everyone, why can't we all agree that the Majestic Q400 is a first class simulation of the Q400, the PMDG 737NGX is a first class simulation of the NG and the FSL A320 is a first class simulation of the A320????

Comparing the Q400 simulation to the A320 is utterly pointless otherwise you might as well state that FSL did a terrible job of modelling the prop.  Although personally i would never try to compare the iFly 737 with the PMDG 737 (i don't have the knowledge not being a real pilot); at the very least it makes more sense than the grown up equivalent of 'my daddy can beat up your daddy' indulged in above.