QW787 P3Dv4 - first impressions?

[Wise87]

30 minutes ago, B777ER said:

To get this topic back on track, I and I'm sure many others would appreciate if somebody that has access to the Quality Wings forums could let us know what the status is in regards to a hotfix or a update to the current RTM. I do want to buy this but I'm going to wait until they get a few of the bugs squashed before doing so. Thank you in advance. 

Is there a specific hotfix your looking for? The forums don’t look overly crazy for a v4 release. I haven’t encountered any issues like CTD or VNAV/LNAV issue that only a handful of people have reported and I’ve done 4 flights so far. Sure there a few things I would like to see addressed like strobe lights, fuel load manager, etc.

[Dreamflight767]

Has anybody experienced a battery fire yet?

[bgpearce01]

I just reinstalled P3d V4.2 in preparation for this aircraft.  My daily driver is X-Plane, but this excited me.  Just for a bit of background, I am a computer science major and well aware of software development practices.  However, releasing this product at a $70 price point is ridiculous.  Every single game, whether or not they spent 200 million dollars making it, releases at $60.  

Here is a specialized product, which i get.  But to release a broken product with issues that have been around for months is BAD BUSINESS.  As others have mentioned, no software is ever truly finished because software is constantly evolving.  But developers trying to follow PMDG lead are mistaken.  These prices with the level of quality is not sustainable.

I am disappointed with the price points being set for software reaching higher and higher, yet the quality of the products are not necessarily any better.  This is a major problem and should be addressed.  

[Wise87]

26 minutes ago, bgpearce01 said:

I just reinstalled P3d V4.2 in preparation for this aircraft.  My daily driver is X-Plane, but this excited me.  Just for a bit of background, I am a computer science major and well aware of software development practices.  However, releasing this product at a $70 price point is ridiculous.  Every single game, whether or not they spent 200 million dollars making it, releases at $60.  

Here is a specialized product, which i get.  But to release a broken product with issues that have been around for months is BAD BUSINESS.  As others have mentioned, no software is ever truly finished because software is constantly evolving.  But developers trying to follow PMDG lead are mistaken.  These prices with the level of quality is not sustainable.

I am disappointed with the price points being set for software reaching higher and higher, yet the quality of the products are not necessarily any better.  This is a major problem and should be addressed.  

Look where the $51 CRJ got us for under $60. The only way this issue will be addressed is when users no longer purchase the software. No body has to buy it until they feel it meets their requirement. 

[vhufo]

2 hours ago, Wise87 said:

Can you really use buying a new car as an example for bugs? A car doesn't care what OS I'm running or the hardware I have installed, add-ons I'm using or weather I have an unstable overclock which is verified by programs that put a high demand on my system compared to others. A car doesn't care if my system is a mess because I installed files everywhere instead of the recommended directory. 

I've seen people buy cars and than use the wrong grade of gas and wonder why there engine is knocking or they installed after market or non-OEM parts and than go back to the dealer and complain about a problem. 

There is only a single model of that car but there are millions of different user setups. To compare car to software developement is not an accurate comparison.  

Using the Microsoft operating system would have been a better comparison. We’ve been dealing with bugs with that OS for decades.

I was just using a car as an example.

 

Take anything that you buy at the shops if you like as an example, don't care what it is.

 

How about an alarm clock. If you buy that for $70 and there is a problem with it and the manufacturer tells you, oh yes we know about that bug, it's been there for 9 months and we are working on it, what's your response going to be?

 

I'm not singling out QW, there are other's out there that do the same thing. 

 

I hate bagging like this because you want to encourage developers to keep doing their stuff, but where is the line drawn?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bgpearce01]

3 minutes ago, Wise87 said:

Look where the $51 CRJ got us for under $60. The only way this issue will be addressed is when users no longer purchase the software. No body has to buy it until they feel it meets their requirement. 

My point was, developers are creating aircraft at the $30 price point and with every release are trying to one up the previous price.  This is a general statement and not saying QW should be a $30 aircraft.  But yes the crj is a prime example.

[davjg]

Hello

Don't make it harder than it really is, follow this step:

1. Get others thought who bought it

2. Buy It !! (remember, its subjective to anyone good or bad)

3. Fly it at a least a couple time

4. If you don't like it, get your refund from Flight1 or otherwise 

5. Kindly report back here

That simple, otherwise you may be missing out just because someone else opinion.

[rmeier]

This thread is getting off track. Past experience shows that if it doesn't stay on point it will be shut down.

I am interested in this aircraft and the current "technical issues" (real or perceived) related to the current software release. I'd hate to see this thread closed this early after release.

For me, my simple view is what details/issues would keep a "real world" aircraft "grounded"? If the software release currently has those limitations, I likely won't buy it. The consumer always has the last choice on how to spend their money. Please, let's try to keep this thread on point and civilized.

[tamsini]

17 hours ago, SpiritFlyer said:

This goes against what most comments may state, but what I am looking for in the QW 787 is a mid-level simulation. 🤔

I do not want a study level steep climb (pardon the pun) a la PMDG or thereabouts but need to be able to fly what I buy. I'll let the younger and more dexterous gray matter tackle the higher, faster and smarter challenges!  

Kind regards, 

It doesn't really matter, I suppose, how we classify this one as long as we enjoy the product. And, although it's been a long time I've used QW products, I do remember enjoying them back in my FSX days - especially the Avro package.

 

****EDIT****

Not sure what happened here - clicked a wrong button and this post reappeared. SORRY!

[odourboy]

1 hour ago, bgpearce01 said:

I just reinstalled P3d V4.2 in preparation for this aircraft.  My daily driver is X-Plane, but this excited me.  Just for a bit of background, I am a computer science major and well aware of software development practices.  However, releasing this product at a $70 price point is ridiculous.  Every single game, whether or not they spent 200 million dollars making it, releases at $60.  

Here is a specialized product, which i get.  But to release a broken product with issues that have been around for months is BAD BUSINESS.  As others have mentioned, no software is ever truly finished because software is constantly evolving.  But developers trying to follow PMDG lead are mistaken.  These prices with the level of quality is not sustainable.

I am disappointed with the price points being set for software reaching higher and higher, yet the quality of the products are not necessarily any better.  This is a major problem and should be addressed.  

Go out and develop a highly complex payware aircraft or two, then come back and tell me what you'd need to sell it for to earn what you would as a professional software developer in say, a high tech company.

[bgpearce01]

13 minutes ago, odourboy said:

Go out and develop a highly complex payware aircraft or two, then come back and tell me what you'd need to sell it for to earn what you would as a professional software developer in say, a high tech company.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A "high tech company" is a lot different business model then 4 or 5 guys developing software.  Listen, im done speaking on the topic.  As it stands I do not feel that it is a $70 product and will not be buying.  Thats my choice, you all can do what you want.  

Just understand if you continue to pay these prices, stop complaining about the high cost especially when buying broken software.  I have seen it time and time again, the push to get the software out the door, influx of cash and eventually see you later.  It happens in all software not just flight sim.

[fluffyflops]

Don't worry in 48 hours we will all be   bashing the 319.  (That's a joke by the way before the mods start panicking) 

[odourboy]

19 minutes ago, bgpearce01 said:

You are comparing apples to oranges. A "high tech company" is a lot different business model then 4 or 5 guys developing software.  Listen, im done speaking on the topic.  As it stands I do not feel that it is a $70 product and will not be buying.  Thats my choice, you all can do what you want.  

Just understand if you continue to pay these prices, stop complaining about the high cost especially when buying broken software.  I have seen it time and time again, the push to get the software out the door, influx of cash and eventually see you later.  It happens in all software not just flight sim.

That is your choice. But I feel you've missed the point. You and others seem to be under the impression that there's some conspiracy among payware developers to jack up prices and screw over their customers with half-baked releases while they roll off to the bank with wheel barrels full of cash. That is not the case. The market for these add-ons is very small. When you combine that with a demand for the highest fidelity systems and modelling and market fragmentation due to multiple sim platform choices, it's all but impossible to make a decent living in this business (at least by Western standards).

I don't like having to pay $70 to $150 for an add-on, but the fact is, even at those prices, the developers are living hand to mouth.

[Bob Scott]

First, I keep seeing these criticisms that prices go up with no increase in quality.  I think what people keep missing is the increase in complexity of an add-on simulating a modern glass cockpit, as well as the increase in cost of development tools, not to mention the time value of money (inflation).

In 2004, I spent $35 for the Dreamfleet B727 add-on.  In 2018 dollars that'd be $47, for a (relatively) simple round-dial 2D panel, no VC, no FMS, no HUD, no EFB, no weather radar, and a moderately complex GMAX model. $70 represents a 49% real increase in price over that FS2002 add-on.

Now add the thousands of additional hours needed to study and then replicate the complex layers of Boeing's newest modern glass integrated flight deck, a 3D VC model mapped for dynamic lighting, a working weather radar, a collimated HUD, an integrated Electronic Flight Bag.  Add in the $1500/year cost of a 3ds Max subscription to do a complex articulated 3D exterior model and VC, the hours needed for bump-mapping textures etc.  Is it not conceivable (obvious?) that the complexity of such an undertaking requires at least a 50% increase in manhours that might well justify the 50% increase in price over the inflation-adjusted real price of a much simpler add-on 14 years ago?

Second, what some folks consider to be "showstopping" sometimes boggles the mind.  I flew all-glass Gulfstream IV and V jets in the real world, and the number of times an actual VNAV descent using the FMS was even possible was probably less than 10 times--out in the open Pacific Oceanic area descending into an island or into Iceland--in five years time.  We generally used V/S, despite having the computer available, because the computer VNAV wasn't much use with ATC calling the shots.  You'll never hear "why no, Frankfurt, we can't descend now, because we haven't reached our TOD yet..."  Would it be nice to have VNAV descents working right--yes, of course, but not a "showstopper" if I want to fly like I do in a real jet.

A high-complexity add-on sold in a low-volume market just isn't going to be tested like a game that sells 50 million copies.  Bugs are a fact of life, even for the top-tier titans of our teeny tiny industry like PMDG.  To infer that to accept the presence of minor bugs as a fact of life must mean that we're willing to accept literally anything the devs market to us is a gross exaggeration...if your standard really is that no bugs are acceptable, then literally no product will be acceptable to you.  Yep, some are better than others, and if you value a working VNAV on a long-range passenger jet add-on that much, you can get exactly that in a B777 for $135 at PMDG.

It's impossible to look at the level of effort these guys must have put into an add-on like this B787 and conclude that they just don't care. 

Regards

 

[Biggles2010]

It's remarkable that we have 6 pages of strongly held opinions about the QW787, and nearly all of them are from people who do not own the product, and have not tried it.

The most strongly held views on any subject always seem to come from those with the least knowledge. And those views are then picked up and repeated, over and over, as though they are fact.

 

I do not own the QW787 and therefore cannot comment on its performance. But the few posts from genuine users of the QW787 are reasonably positive, while also mentioning a couple of issues which need attention. Hardly surprising for a complex product. There is little to suggest that this is faulty or broken product, as some non users have claimed. 

 

Regarding the price, that is a matter of choice. If you don't like the price, you do not have to buy the product.