OldFlyboy

Do I bite the bullet and leave Win7 for 10?

Recommended Posts

Things seem to be moving in that direction and a few bits of software are exclusive W10.  I am really happy with Win7 Ultimate and have loads of software for P3Dv3 and v4.

How difficult is a changeover? Upgrade to W10 without clearing hard drives or start from scratch? Or leave Win7 on my Pc and ignore W10 as long as possible?

Thanks in advance for advise and suggestions

Neal Howard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

My view: I don't recall any issues with the update. However, that was quite a long time and a new computer ago.

Make sure you have plenty of free space on your boot drive. Maybe 100gb free at least? Make a restore disk/usb stick before you start; just in case. Back up your critical documents.

I'm not sure why people claim to have heartburn over Windows 10. I like it and have had near zero problems. It's better than Win7, imo. I guess people like to hate and if there's something other people hate, so much the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nike!

Just make sure there are Windows 10 drivers for your motherboard before making the jump over to Windows 10.  You're motherboard's website will have them if they exist.

I think it's far better to start from scratch.

 

 

Edited by DaveCT2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't love W10. Besides forcing updates all the time with occasionally bad results, it's always running all sorts of background junk, esp. after booting . If I didn't have to use W10, I'd have stuck with W7 myself. My W7 machine wss very lean and clean. But those times are gone.

Edited by odourboy
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the compelling reason to switch is Microsoft is ending extended support for Windows 7 in January 2020, less than 1 year. How easy it will be to make the switch depends on lots of things, age of your hardware, how much stuff is on your hard drive, how old your software is, etc. RichieFly's advice is sound. I upgraded to Windows 10 very early on and I started from Windows 8, not Windows 7. My upgrade was very smooth with very few issues. I'm also a member of the Windows Insider fast ring, and all of the updates I get have been compatible with all of my P3d and add-ons with very few exceptions. I'd say you would probably want to start planning the switch soon though, Windows 7 will soon go the way of Windows XP, Windows ME, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I occasionally rebuild my sim computer, and at that time I change OS's.  In other words, I am like Dave -- I prefer to start from scratch, less problems for me overall doing that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recently upgraded to an i7-9700K with all of the bells and whistles, including going from Win7 Pro to Win 10 Pro having vowed never to change OS. I have to say, I have no complaints. Auto update is turned off which was my biggest issue and I have become used to the differences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to go to W10 because I wanted to use a WMR headset. Samsung Odyssey+

I don't have any regrets but had it not been for that I would have stayed with W7.

I say stay put until something really compels you to change and when you do Start from scratch.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Avidean said:

I say stay put until something really compels you to change and when you do Start from scratch.

Hi Neal,

......or, take the more leasurely approach and install Windows 10 under a Dual Boot arrangement - see my signature.

I have always remained sceptical about rushing to make the change and so this option seemed to me to be eminently sensible. I have preserved and continue to use my superbly performing and stable Windows 7 installation (no forced updates, indeed no Windows updates, including the much publicised Spectre and Meltdown patches, for the best part of a year now) while affording me the opportunity to explore what Windows 10 has to offer. 

I was able to preserve the consistency of all my secondary drive letters under both o/s. This has many advantages, e.g.:

1. All drives are accessible from both o/s (Win10 appears as Drive ‘T’ under Win7 and Win7 appears as Drive ‘S’ under Win10).

2. The ability to access and run many Steam games under both o/s without the need to reinstall specifically for Win 10. The assumption here is that Steam games make little or no use of the System Registry. Of course, this does not apply to Prepar3D (300-400GB) which will continue to run only under Win7. My intention is to install Version 5 under Win10.

3. X-Plane 11 (installed under Win7) seems to run fine when accessed from Win10. Again, no reinstallation was necessary.

3. Many products allow the use of the same licence under both o/s so no need to repurchase. This would not be the case with Prepar3D. LM would require you to purchase a second licence should you chose to run under both Win7 and 10.

So, for the next year or so I can slowly build on my use of Windows 10 in the knowledge that everything installed under Win7 remains intact.

Unlike others, my enthusiasm for Win10 remains somewhat muted. Currently I can’t say that it offers anything I need or want that is not already available under Win7. If you get the Pro Version there is much you can do to determine when updates should be applied. I do find it slightly annoying to see the motherboard light, signalling SSD activity, flickering away for many minutes at the beginning of a Win10 session. You can decide when updates  are applied, but you can’t stop Windows from downloading those updates. There is a way to hide certain updates (Microsoft provide a utility) and you can prevent driver updates. This is all well documented on the Internet.

Like Windows 7, I have elected to install Windows 10 on its own dedicated drive. In the case of Win10, it’s a fast 2TB drive which is allowing for the installation of a few games or apps that have been designed for that o/s. At some stage I am intending to explore VR and it is known that the Oculus software is now being optimised for Win10. I doubt whether I will use VR with Win7. 

Just something for you to consider without losing any options or exposing you to the nightmare of having to reinstall everything. When I decide to make the change to using Win10 exclusively then all that drive real estate will still be available, including the 1TB Win7 drive. However, I don’t see that happening anytime soon 😉

Regards,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no fan of Win 10, but had to go there because hardware driver support wasn't there in Win 7 for the new chipset.

My two cents...stay with Win 7 until something forces you to move...P3D works just fine in Win 7, there really is no advantage running it in Win 10.  Just start planning for the move in a year or two, and when you do I also recommend a clean install from the ground up...no good reason to bring over the registry clutter, and everything gets built on the platform it's going to run on.

Regards

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, w6kd said:

My two cents...stay with Win 7 until something forces you to move...

He's trying to get into VR, I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, odourboy said:

it's always running all sorts of background junk, esp. after booting

Such as what? Windows 10 continues loading parts of the OS after you get to the desktop but this is just to speed up the booting process and allow you to use the OS quicker.

11 hours ago, DavidP said:

Auto update is turned off which was my biggest issue

Turning updates off completely means that you don't get any of the important security updates. It's much better to just turn off driver updates which are usually what cause the problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what the heck it's doing... it seems to be scanning my system for updates status, based on the process names. It routinely hogs 10 to 15% of the CPU along with lots of disk and I/O activity. Whatever it's doing it can often take 15 or 20 minutes to settle down before I'm comfortable to fire up my sim. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, odourboy said:

I don't know what the heck it's doing... it seems to be scanning my system for updates status,

go to settings, privacy and work your way through the column on the left; turning off/ disabling or 'minimalizing' everything on the right. this should drastically reduce background activity to the extent your OS should feel like win7 again.
if not, set it back to defaults.

Edited by jpf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been there, done that. Early on, I combed the internet and applied ever setting that applied to W10 Home, including some registry settings, designed to minimize background activity and hold updates at bay. Spent days tweaking. It worked great for a long time, then somehow Microsoft managed to forced a massive update on my machine that I was powerless to stop, (took about I hours go apply it all), undoing much of the work is done and removing some of the back doors, I'd exploited.

After that it was clear I couldn't win. So I've got all the obvious stuff turned off and just live with the rest. Thus my statement of I have no love for W10 and would gladly still be on W7 if I could.

Edited by odourboy
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds bad.  Last time I checked, my Win10 installation was not hogging the cpu for 15-20 minutes (or even 1 minute) after boot.  (!) 

I guess I will pay a little more attention to it next time.

I've got a pretty draconian Win10 install, with gobs of services set to not start.  It did take me a lot of time and research to get it that way.  No question it has more nannies out-of-the-box than Win7 did, but we all know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was  with  windows 7  for  ages   till  got  a new  pc  and of  course  had  to  get  windows  10,   can  say  that I  got  no issues  with it of  course  my  windows  10  was  a  clean install

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, odourboy said:

It routinely hogs 10 to 15% of the CPU along with lots of disk and I/O activity. Whatever it's doing it can often take 15 or 20 minutes to settle down

Then I'd say that the problem lies with something other than the OS. I was reading this on my iPad and booted up my PC to check. I have a flurry of activity for about a minute after reaching the desktop, up to about 10% CPU utilisation for about another 30 seconds after that then 0% to just a few percent from then on unless a program is running.

What antivirus/antimalware apps do you have? Some do a system check on startup which can use a lot of resources.

Edited by vortex681

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In fairness, I should say thst I only boot my machine up when I'm going to fly, otherwise it's off. My schedule hasn't allowed much time for simming lately, so the machine can be off for days at a time.  When I boot up, it could be that there's a lot of "catching up" to do, that might normally have been spread out or done at 2:00am or something. Of course, it's a vicious cycle, I'm less likely to boot the mschine and fly, knowing I have to wait to start my session, which only makes the backlog of updates worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, odourboy said:

In fairness, I should say thst I only boot my machine up when I'm going to fly, otherwise it's off. My schedule hasn't allowed much time for simming lately, so the machine can be off for days at a time.  When I boot up, it could be that there's a lot of "catching up" to do, that might normally have been spread out or done at 2:00am or something. Of course, it's a vicious cycle, I'm less likely to boot the mschine and fly, knowing I have to wait to start my session, which only makes the backlog of updates worse.

This is my problem too. I have win10 on only my laptop which i turn on maybe once every 3 weeks and when I use it win10 loads and then for 45min its updating itself. Very annoying. Thats why I haven't switched my desk top from 7. I turn it on and can use it right away. Laptop I have to turn it on well before I actually need to use so its ready for me. ITs always updating. Can that be turned of to only update when I want it too??? Like after I am done using it...Microsoft are you listening???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've run every version of Windows from W98 on. I've just never had a problem with any of them. I dabble in video and music production. All computer intensive. I can't imagine not wanting security updates. I have a Toshiba laptop with a itb HHD. I understand that Toshiba drives are not very good. The computer was slow to start and as noted above, the drive was very busy for some time after startup. The drive finally failed and I put an SSD in. Everything changed. 

It seems to me that problems arise more from hardware problems that OS. Although trying to make the OS do things that it was never intended to do is a problem.

Something else. As much as we complain about how poorly FSX is coded,and how hard it may be to get to run well (what ever that means), it tends to still run on modern systems and OSs when other software from the same time has long been left behind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on what people have reported and my wife's laptop computer, if you are going to move from Windows 7 to Windows 10, make it a completely new installation of Windows 10.  Those, including my wife, who have Windows 7 or 8 and upgrade to 10 seem to have more problems than those who perform a clean installation of Windows 10.  It is becoming a Windows 10 world and although you could keep your flight sim on a Windows 7 machine, at some point add on developers and P3D, perhaps X-Plane as well, will cease to support or develop anything other than Windows 10 compatible software.

We are Windows 10 of Borg, you will be assimilated.

Edited by stans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stans said:

Based on what people have reported and my wife's laptop computer, if you are going to move from Windows 7 to Windows 10, make it a completely new installation of Windows 10.  Those, including my wife, who have Windows 7 or 8 and upgrade to 10 seem to have more problems than those who perform a clean installation of Windows 10.  It is becoming a Windows 10 world and although you could keep your flight sim on a Windows 7 machine, at some point add on developers and P3D, perhaps X-Plane as well, will cease to support or develop anything other than Windows 10 compatible software.

We are Windows 10 of Borg, you will be assimilated.

Hi Stans,

Everything you have said is, of course, true and I do have a clean installation of Win10 alongside Win7, each on their own dedicated drives. 

For me, the point is I already have a stable and well performing heavily customised Prepar3D installation under Windows7. Limited support for Win7 continues until Jan 2020 and it’s likely that many like me, with their mature installations, will opt to keep it that way until Ver 5 is revealed. Thereafter it will take some time to incorporate all my preferred customisations. In the meantime, under a dual Boot arrangement, Prepar3D v4.x remains available to me in all its glory.

I like some aspects of Windows 10, but the inescapable fact is that Microsoft never really intended it for the likes of us. User pressure is forcing change and doubtless, in time, it will become accepted universally as being the de facto preferred operating system. Windows7 has achieved classic status and, for me, remains the better operating system for my current needs and hardware requirements.

Prior to deciding on a dual boot arrangement to accommodate Windows10 I was arguing from a point of weakness since I had little or no experience of Win10. That is no longer the case and yet I still favour Windows7. I suspect there are still not insignificant numbers who share my impressions.

Meantime, I see no harm in dabbling with Windows10 while observing its ongoing evolution. Yes, the day will come when I am persuaded to jump, but that day has not yet arrived.

IMHO Windows10 of Borg is not yet a match for the joint forces of the Windows7 Federation of Planets! Assimilation was never an option!!

Regards,

Mike 😀

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've heard all this stuff before. Same arguments, different decade. Windows ME was a disaster they said. The only thing worse was XP. You had to find away to afford 128mb of ram just to run it. Then it became the rock solid standard. Vista came along, which was more popular than most of us remember  Then W7 landed. What was MS thinking? They changed everything around. They hid stuff. Even more ram was needed. People hated W7. And W8. Complaints about W10 are the same old thing. Seems to me that the strong points about computers is the ability to move ahead. If we try to squeeze a new OS into an old mold then we are looking backward, and not progressing. I know, I know you all just want a stable machine that does what you want. If that's the case, get a Volvo, a computer will let you down much of the time. I've had my share of crashes, lost data, expensive software that no longer works. So what. Does my machine run me, or do I run it. I do not fear a new OS. I have upgraded almost as soon as they come out. So get developers to offer their stuff for W10. And at an upgrade price. Although nobody said running a sim was going to be cheap. We knew that going in. Upgrade and progress happens. Help it happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't believe the arguments about Windows 10 are the same as previous versions. The Windows extreme security, automatic updates,forced apps and spyware are the problem with Win 10. Great for businesses, bad for gamers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now