Right, I've got the general gist. Maybe a better question would be "Why is being a game so bad"?

 

But seeing as I've read there are other threads I might as well not post another topic.

8 hours ago, LHookins said:

When I was young I used to say, "It's not a game, it's a simulator!" 

Hook

Three Miles Island by Muse Software ! Goodness Larry, I was thinking about it few days ago, a good game even if I couldn’t run the darned thing without it exploding to my face  ! Funny that getting old you remember a game you played 40 years ago and can’t remember where you put your glasses a couple of minutes ago.

Another <cough> simulation <cough> which I don’t remember the name was an oversimplified ATC with a matrix of dots for the airspace and letters for aircraft.  Long before Tracon. Another great game, nay simulation, nay game , nay simulation, nay..., etc. etc.

Business ? What about Baron a <cough> simulation of the real estate market.

Simulation, game. By the way, is a hammer a tool or a weapon ? 

Edited April 4, 20206 yr by domkle

Game: abandon realism if required for playability/fun.

v

Simulator: abandon playability/fun if required for realism.

So when people say "its a simulator not a game" they mean - yes, some things are not that fun, but they are required for it to be realistic

and when they say "its a game not a simulator" they are referring to aspects of realism that were skimped on for playability or simply because the cost of developing them could be avoided for something that is only for entertainment purposes.

MSFS2020 is only for entertainment purposes.

Edited April 4, 20206 yr by mSparks

Well, it comes from a gaming studio..

It's played with gaming joysticks.

So, if we add spaceships & fictional scenery, is it a game or a simulator?

It's a game that simulates a simulator,

It's called a simulator by guys that use PMDG planes, 

gently all ...

& i realise this is an ms forum where i would not expect more, but some on avsim use procedural trainers (by others, not ms) for more than entertainment

 

11 hours ago, overspeed3 said:

Usually when we think of a game, it has its winners, and it has its losers.  I guess with flight sim, when you land safely with no significant damage to the aircraft, you are a Winner.   When you crash, are you a Loser? 

With that in mind, excluding air races or stunts, I seriously doubt real world pilots think flying is a game...  

When I was in my teens and made first contact with MSFS, I was disappointed I didn't get acknowledged for successfull landings. That at least shows that game doesn't equal game. 😉

When I started flight training, my instructors were surprised how easy it was for me to pick up new things. Thanks to a game. 😉 The only issue that every sim pilot seems seems to have when starting flying IRL: Nervous control input. 😄

Edited April 4, 20206 yr by tweekz

It's a game, which simulates flying aeroplanes. Mostly it's referred to as a game so the developers can abdicate themselves from the (either perceived or real) responsibility and potential litigation which might ensue if someone is stupid enough to climb in a Cessna for real after having 'had a go' in a flight simulator and think it's not going to end badly.

Never ceases to amaze me that this conversation can go on for, so far, three pages. 

Is Ron's mustache real or a simulation?     I get stimulation, humiliation, aggravation, and a vacation from my  simulation!  I should go fly something!

I simulated a trip to the Loo with no toilet paper not a pretty site🤢. 

Even this thing could be considered a game if let's say a company buys one and open it for the public as an entertainment center but they don't...

Or if one is rich enough to afford it and afford a place to install it and then let their family play with it like a console, ping-pong or pool table.

Any flight simulator, no matter how technical it is and expensive it could be, if it is not used in a serious and professional way, it could turn into an entertainment video game...

PC flight simulators are used in so many different ways and with some many different level of seriousness..

MSFS or XP or FSX could be enjoyed by a child using outside view and look like a pure video game and the same exact sim is used in the evening by their parent in a super technical manner using a fancy airline addon in a long haul VATSIM driven flight. 

Edited April 4, 20206 yr by Claviateur

Like others have said, it all depends on how you decide to use the product. 

Are you only interested in achieving the highest score in landing challenges, or you want to have fun with your friends? Fine, then it's a game for you.

Are you using real life charts and procedures for your IFR flight? Then you use it as a simulator.

I think it's great that a product can be both.

 

Heck, there are even mods for GTA V that basically turn it into a police simulator for example. It all depends on the mindset of how you're approaching it.

The FAA is quite clear on the matter, it is NOT a simulator as defined by FAR Part 60 and numerous Advisory Circulars. National Simulator Program The only simulators are Full Flight Simulators (FFS) and they are certified levels A through D.

Both Microsoft (Lockheed Martin) and XPlane brands created a professional training variant of their software that was allowed for PCATD which later became BATDs and AATDs. When considered on a whole the BATDs and AATDs are very limited on what they may be used for providing a handful of hour reduction to the overall minimums. Unlike the FFS in which a type rating and even an ATP checkride can be completed in the simulator. 

EASA, CAA, JAA, etc all have very similar rules when it comes to training devices. 

Simulators designed for training are licensed by the aircraft manufacture, are certified by a government agency, and must designed to and continue to meet strict performance requirements laid out in some regulation. 

However, that does not necessarily mean it is a game either. As I have already stated above IAW AC 61-135B the versions sold (licensed) for commercial use may be certified for limited training capability. (Note: this is not something a home builder can accomplish.) Generally these versions are the exact same software that is sold for other purposes. So while the software may be sold as an entertainment product it also has versions that can be used in real world flight training.

In the end you have to realize that all software is a tool and tools can be used professionally and recreationally. It may not be the software that defines it use but the mindset of the person using the software. I have done many public sim flights in my company's Level D FFS and I would hardly classify them as training despite the device being certified and I being a CFI. That also being said, knowing that a student has a home hobby level desktop 'simulator' I will often assign homework to capitalize on that tool.

So the is it a game or is it a simulator goes beyond the software and really gets down to its use. You can use a FFS as a game just as well, as under the right environment and under the tutelage of a certificated instructor, you can use entertainment software to be very simulator like. 

By the way... Few professional pilots on Youtube (airline, fighters etc) tried XPlane, DCS etc and they use the expression video game not simulator... For them simulators are the machines they use for training at the facility... So they do not identify a software on home PC as a simulator but rather the whole machine in a training facility, although the software of any pro simulator was programmed on a PC and could run basically on a  PC.

17 hours ago, fppilot said:

These types of topics as a routine escalate into stronger opinions and then arguments, and then worse.  Why start?

Because these types of topics as a routine escalate into stronger opinions and then arguments, and then worse., that's why.