There is still an NDA in place so most testers and developers can't/shouldn't be talking about it, but I'll be glad when that restriction is finally lifted as there really is so much to talk about and discuss.

8 hours ago, mSparks said:

90fps in MSFS.... yeah, I don't think that's ever going to happen, not with DX11 + windows anyway. To many O(C^n) bugs in the windows task manager to fix first.

I'll at least say that if you do try it, performance will be the last thing most people will be complaining about.

Let's keep this topic civil please, if it goes off on a rail or off-topic it will be closed.

All I have seen so far is eye candy. Important for some but I love flying airliners and x-plane is still the way to go for me. 

5 hours ago, mSparks said:

Charge.

At least 4x more than its worth.

And still wont be as good as an average XP12 freeware aircraft.

Disagree.... if developers want to stay competitive then charging really high prices and putting a "pro" or "hd" on the end won't cut it anymore.

What users also forget is that the effort and skill needed to produce content will go up as the bar has been raised a lot on what will be considered acceptable quality. This will have a good knock-on effect to X-Plane/P3D content as well, so it's a good thing 🙂

11 minutes ago, beep747 said:

All I have seen so far is eye candy. Important for some but I love flying airliners and x-plane is still the way to go for me. 

Have you watched the Discovery Series videos? Because there were lots of information in it which were not just eye candy.

But sure, right now XP11 has a deficit on eye candy compared to MSFS and (hopefully) XP12. The most important things in MSFS for XP users are:
- noise generated clouds from the start, already tweaked, already capable of developing vertical formation of clouds with a much advanced weather. All of this without having to install third parties, meet bad performance, install different sets of cloud textures or sky textures.

- the lighting, which is really what makes the game "pretty" in a way

- the extended coverage of cities covered by photogrammetry, i think this is even more important than orthos (which we already got used to in XP anyway to a certain extent)

11 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Disagree.... if developers want to stay competitive then charging really high prices and putting a "pro" or "hd" on the end won't cut it anymore.

What users also forget is that the effort and skill needed to produce content will go up as the bar has been raised a lot on what will be considered acceptable quality. This will have a good knock-on effect to X-Plane/P3D content as well, so it's a good thing 🙂

A significant portion of XP 3rd party developers are Mac/Linux users who do it for fun not profit.

Both are "creator"/poweruser operating systems rather than the creaking at the seams consumer garbage that MS specialise in pumping out.

Microsoft users are a captive market. It doesnt matter how low quality and expensive the software is, most of its users have only barely learnt to use the power button. Heaven forbid it gets unpluged.

5 hours ago, MichiGanderFlyer said:

I remember on the xplane.org, people wouldnt concider MSFS because it doesnt exist. Guess I'll do the same, Xplane 12 doesnt exist. 

Clearly MS arent doing the same.

Or they would be putting more than 2 weeks of beta testing in with a few thousand testers compared to Laminars typical MO of 6 to 8 weeks beta testing with a few hundred thousand users.

Edited July 16, 20205 yr by mSparks

6 minutes ago, mSparks said:

A significant portion of XP 3rd party developers are Mac/Linux users who do it for fun not profit.

Freeware users don't need to stay competitive, I'm talking about people who make addons for a living.

 

48 minutes ago, tonywob said:

Freeware users don't need to stay competitive, I'm talking about people who make addons for a living.

 

aka profit margin aka lowest quality for the highest price.

If their base sim is good enough to break sales records then 3rd party aircraft guys will reduce prices to capture more of that market.

Personally I'm expecting more of the same of the kind of stuff thats already on the ms store. In flight sim terms that means an army of shoddy aircraft paints for $4 a pop ($24 if they use an airlines name, obviously).

Edited July 16, 20205 yr by mSparks

16 hours ago, Colonel X said:

I hope it won't escalate.

Pity, but not a hope in hell!

Perhaps the whole world should work for nothing!

Mick

I havent even started XP11 since I got an email from MS. I would have loved XP to become my main sim for a longer period of time, but dev pace is horribly slow (see Vulkan) due to lack of staff and 3PD scene is problematic as well (FF planes are decent, but overpriced; Toliss is good; xEnviro is trainwreck of unfulfilled promises, ortho4xp is great, but a timeconsuming pain to set up, orbx TE is too expensive, etc. Zibo is obviously great though)

Out of the box MSFS with its published features fulfills all basic needs that I have and will only get better once 3PD aircraft and airports arrive. I may keep XP11 installed to see where its going, apart from that it seem to be the inferior platform except for niche use cases (Linux, planemaker, helicopters, etc.)

20 minutes ago, MagentaChild said:

I havent even started XP11 since I got an email from MS.

For me it's the other way round. I have hardly started the MSFS alpha more than 10 times (or so), mostly after the bigger updates. I still fly X-Plane 99% of the time and it will probably stay that way unless MSFS (probably with the help of addons) will evolve into something that makes me "click".

 

2 hours ago, Airboeing said:

For me it's the other way round. I have hardly started the MSFS alpha more than 10 times (or so), mostly after the bigger updates. I still fly X-Plane 99% of the time and it will probably stay that way unless MSFS (probably with the help of addons) will evolve into something that makes me "click".

 

This is because XP11 is mature.  You have all the add-ons you want and your peripherals are all supported.  

13 hours ago, Paraffin said:

Too early to tell what third party devs can do, you'll only see the default planes on release. Won't comment on the "on rails" things due to NDA except to say that this isn't previous versions of MSFS.

If you buy the standard version you can upgrade, no problem.

 

 

Dear Paraffin,

You and @ryanbatcund can't comment on flight dynamics of default FS2020 planes becuase of the NDA, this (with no proof of nothing) leads me to believe that flight dynamics and systems could be well enough to try the new sim (the standard version for now, thanks for your report on upgrade), however as other mentioned not sure if those default FS2020 planes will beat XP11 payware planes (the high end ones), at least for now, too much to test try and see. 

Default aircraft are going to be default aircraft. You have to see through the BS. It's not going to be a Toliss or Rotate level craft right out of the box. It's going to behave like a serviceable aircraft Just like the one in XP11.  I can't comment on flight dynamics or any other aspect of the Alpha. I think there is plenty of room for all flight simulator. MFS will need time before it matures. Just like all the other flight sim.  

3 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Default aircraft are going to be default aircraft. You have to see through the BS. It's not going to be a Toliss or Rotate level craft right out of the box. It's going to behave like a serviceable aircraft Just like the one in XP11.  I can't comment on flight dynamics or any other aspect of the Alpha. I think there is plenty of room for all flight simulator. MFS will need time before it matures. Just like all the other flight sim.  

Agreed.  I'm not sure why people keep insisting default aircraft will compete with payware titles.  They certainly look amazing, but they're still default.

Yes I don't believe default FS2020 planes will beat monsters like Toliss FF, you name it out of the box, I'm fine with convincing flight models, 3d model and systems, this is just a consumer sim after all.

Edited July 16, 20205 yr by alexcolka