We are 20 days from release and I think I (and many others) have dropped enough hints by now to illustrate the sim is not going to be perfect. With the release of the media from the NDA, you are probably now seeing some of the flaws we haven't been able to talk about as testers. Yes, there are issues with the weather, the flight models, and some graphical issues dealing with the scenery. I'm still technically under NDA so you'll have to use your own intuition watching the various videos released to make judgements past that. Ultimately, until you play it, you won't really know everything anyway. 

Regardless, while I've tried to encourage everyone to go into the release with eyes wide open and expectations tempered, I also want to encourage people to go into the release with a realization that we are lucky to even be here. Without MS and Asobo, there would be no next-gen flight simulation to build from, even with what flaws the developers will have to work through. XP11 is a great sim with some really cool abilities and an excellent flight model. P3D is a great sim, though obviously limited by time's passage, and LM gave this hobby a new life many didn't think it had. I'm grateful for both. 

But before MSFS, there was no truly next-gen simulator on the horizon. The ability to stream the world in such detail was a pipe dream and the general consensus among simmers is that we were part of a dying hobby, doomed to buy add-on after add-on for our older sims until development eventually dwindled. Yet, here we are, with the ability to quite literally fly over our houses in most cases (yes, my house is in the sim) in a photorealistic world, with new atmospherics, AI placing autogen in ways not thought possible, cloudscapes no one dreamed of a year ago, with towns that used to be random smears in P3D now represented in incredible detail, etc. There's a ton to love here and if history has taught us anything, it's that a base engine built for the future is far more important than perfection at launch. 

Yes, the flight model needs work. Yes, they need to fix some elevation issues with the scenery (the bane of every sim ever). Yes, the photogrammetry is not perfect and is at the mercy of the source data. But this is absolutely the best time ever to be a simmer. We now have a future that's brighter than anyone suspected just 12 months ago. 

So yeah, report the problems, and there will be plenty, but hopefully we all keep our perspective as well. 

Edited July 30, 20205 yr by bonchie

What could be seen on this forum today is probably just a little foretaste of what is to be expected on August 18th.

It will probably not be possible any more to have a constructive discussion about problems and their possible solutions or maybe different settings and their effects with all that noise of people with excessive expectations or a tendency to talk everything down. Nothing wrong with pointing out shortcomings but what was happening here today was completely out of perspective in large parts. 

Someone suggested a tips and tricks subforum for constructive discussions only and I can only hope that will work. I'm sure many of the Alpha testers would be of a great help for those who are really looking for solutions or hints and not only finding their joy in downtalking the new sim. But those valuable posts would be very hard to find in all that noise.

Edited July 30, 20205 yr by RALF9636

Haters are always going to hate. They're everywhere. Meanwhile, I think I'm in love.

I've seen some flaws in the armor today with all the vids.  I'm still super excited and eager to move onto the new MFS going forward.  I think the positives vastly outweigh the negatives I know about, and it will continue to improve over time.

I'm not even installing FSX nor P3D onto the new PC I just built.  I'm ready for something new, flaws and all.

My favourite piece of information is this from PMDG 

The NG3 flight deck is factors larger in terms of polygons and texture size, yet provides no discernible negative effect on the performance of the simulation.

The performance in this sim is going to blow us away.

42 minutes ago, bonchie said:

Regardless, while I've tried to encourage everyone to go into the release with eyes wide open and expectations tempered, I also want to encourage people to go into the release with a realization that we are lucky to even be here. Without MS and Asobo, there would be no next-gen flight simulation to build from, even with what flaws the developers will have to work through.

What a nice posting, bonchie. Sometimes it's good to step back and have a look at the larger picture. I've been a tester as well and I think I can copy all what you write 1:1.

Kind regards, Michael

38 minutes ago, bonchie said:

 

So yeah, report the problems, and there will be plenty, but hopefully we all keep our perspective as well. 

Your post sets an excellent framework for discussion between two obnoxious extremes, cheerleading and bashing.

But one must also accept that debating in a forum is not singing in a choir, it is discordant, nay, it has to be discordant. A forum is a place where people  will have different opinions. Some you like, some you don’t. It is made for that. Consensus is not the name of the game.

59 minutes ago, bonchie said:

But this is absolutely the best time ever to be a simmer. We now have a future that's brighter than anyone suspected just 12 months ago. 

So yeah, report the problems, and there will be plenty, but hopefully we all keep our perspective as well. 

You're doing it all wrong with posts like this. We're supposed to be wielding pitchforks and lighting torches because it doesn't simulate the bluebells in our back gardens. 🤣

Joking aside, whilst I agree with you that it is good to see a shiny new sim being introduced, there is nothing wrong with being critical of things; being critical doesn't automatically mean you hate something, or won't buy it, or won't support it. As long as it is civil and intended to help improve matters, criticism can be a good thing.

I bought the deluxe super-duper-sexy version of the thing the millisecond it went on sale, and have done so with pretty much every flight sim that's ever been available because your support should be where your wallet is if you like flight simming. But this does not mean I will automatically join the choir in blindly praising everything about it, unless it deserves that kind of adulation.

Edited July 30, 20205 yr by Chock

51 minutes ago, suncoastflyer said:

My favourite piece of information is this from PMDG 

The NG3 flight deck is factors larger in terms of polygons and texture size, yet provides no discernible negative effect on the performance of the simulation.

The performance in this sim is going to blow us away.

That's what's really going to tell the tale with this sim. The default planes are what they are. It's all going to hinge on what the performance is with third party aircraft. We'll find out sometime next year I guess.

44 minutes ago, Chock said:

As long as it is civil and intended to help improve matters, criticism can be a good thing.

Definitely, and I'm all for focussed, vocal criticism as it gives devs an extra idea of how to prioritize resources. I have a feeling TrackIR and VR wouldn't have appeared quite as early in the roadmap if there wasn't such wailing and gnashing of teeth at their absence.

What I find irritating is when users only focus on either the good or the bad. Only the good? None of the bad gets fixed. Only the bad? Consumers get put off and don't invest, encouraging beancounters to pull the plug (MS Flight and FSW anyone?).

 

Well said bonchie! 

Yes, Microsoft and Asobo have pulled off a great achievement. I'll be eager to start flying with the new sim and no doubt I'll have many hours of fun.

At the same time I fully concur with Dominque and Chock ... not only to share objective information but to be able to also discuss opinion is part of the fun and the liveliness of a forum like this. As long as everyone can stay polite and respectful.

And ... being critical is not a synonym for being negative. 

Edited July 30, 20205 yr by RudyB24

Agree w/ many sentiments here; constructive criticism is important, and I'd bet my life the devs themselves are more critical of their own work than most (any of us are when we create something!). Debating over issues is what makes internet forums fun, anyway!

Many of the discussions today, hoo boy, they aren't constructive in any way at all! Good for sitting back with a bowl of popcorn, at least.

54 minutes ago, Dermot McClusky said:

Many of the discussions today, hoo boy, they aren't constructive in any way at all! Good for sitting back with a bowl of popcorn, at least.

Ironically enough, even the heated and fractious discussions might indirectly be good for things. A lively forum is more likely to get visitors, and of course donations, and that's good for flight simming in general if places such as Avsim get some more donations. It all serves to make the hobby/interest/whatever else you want to call it, a bit more popular.

It's nothing new though. Things always get a bit heated when a shiny new flight sim toy is on the way, and since this is a pretty big one, it's inevitable that people are going to start throwing their toys out of the pram on occasion. Happened with FS2004, FSX, P3D, and with 64 bit versions of sims these, and with FSW, and with XPlane, and Aerofly FS2 and it'll probably happen with Deadstick and Helicopter Simulator when those two come out soon as well. If nothing else, it tends to show people are at least passionate about the subject.

One thing about the new sim is, even in all the videos and pics we've seen; it still doesn't even come close to what you're going to feel when you're actually flying it.  The sense of scale is something that cannot be put in to words.  Even with the scenery errors, you actually feel like you're flying past the objects that are next to you and seeing objects behind those objects is amazing and much more real.

I couldn't even imagine that we'd be at this level of detail in a simulator before they announced it.   I know most people here are all about the flight dynamics and such, but you really don't appreciate how much the scenery means until you actually fly in it.  In real simulators the visuals are the number one thing in fooling the senses. This delivers.  

Now imagine this new sim 1 or 2 years from now when some 3PD gets a hold of it and figures out how to correct the scenery errors (along with ASOBO), and other things.  Imagine this in DX12 (DLSS) and those performance gains.  Imagine what FT and FB airports are going to look like at full tilt!  Same for aircraft.

I've been hesitant to use the old phrase we've been using for the last 30 years ("now we have something to build on"), but I think we actually do now have exactly that, in a much better way than before.  It's now about adding to rather than fixing the core sim and then adding.

Having been a FS user since the very first version (before MS), I considered the first golden age of simming to be FS9.  When add-ons really started gaining traction and you could do a long haul flight with a somewhat stable sim. 

The second golden age I believe was the P3D 64 bit era.  Thank you to LM, BTW, for giving us something to use in the interim.  Same for XP.

Now, I think we're going in to a platinum age with this new sim.  MS did great with ASOBO.  Home friggin run right there.  They actually figured out what users needed out of the box to run correctly.  NavData, real time WX, and now real time traffic (bonus).  They've achieved a near perfect blend for us hard cores folks as well as the new users that are going to come flooding back along with those getting back in to the sim.

I was reading some comments on the PC gamer FB page on the latest FS article.  It was amazing to see first person shooters, and a bunch of other users that said they were never in to sims, but 'are now' commenting on how cool the sim is.  They went off to buy a bunch of hardware for the release.

So while, nothing is ever perfect at release, and we'll be here to point those issues out, I for one am really happy that we now have a 'REAL' simming platform that we can really make our home again.

I would just like to say:  Welcome home Microsoft, we've missed you!! and Welcome to the FS family ASOBO!!