That package looks fine.

1 hour ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

We need an aircraft carrier off the coast of San Francisco for them to land on. That was one of the first things I tried all those years back in FS4. 😊

GIB AND INN // LXGB AND LOWI   are going to unreachable on vatsim for the next 6 months with kids flying 747-8's.

Theres going to be have to be some very patient controllers while people fly vor to vor from EGCC to EGLL.  its going to be funny as hell

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by fluffyflops

Just now, tweekz said:

That package looks fine.

Yep, just think, every one of those Cd/DVDs will need to be updated the minute you load them. Then again, and again, and again. 🤨

39 minutes ago, arsenal82 said:

you say xboxer will stick to it;    and i think not;

Not everyone who tried a flight simulator stuck with it more than a few years. 😄   Some flew for less than a year!  Why, I only few some flight sims until the next version of that sim came out!

So what?

The biggest problem with increasing the size of the flight sim community by a factor of 100 is the fact that it has the potential to increase the "Serious Simmer" community by a factor of 100 as well.  And the factor of 100 is only for those gamers who stick with MSFS for years.

You are in the minority already with the current flight simming community, and you'll be even more in the minority with all the new simmers.  Life is rough all around.

Hook

7 minutes ago, tweekz said:

That package looks fine.

Wow, an actual paper manual.  And a keyboard chart!  When was the last time we saw a keyboard chart!?  I don't need the discs, but can I get the rest of the stuff?  Pretty please?  I don't live in Europe.
 

4 minutes ago, raymar said:

Yep, just think, every one of those Cd/DVDs will need to be updated the minute you load them. Then again, and again, and again. 🤨

Yeah, and thank GOD for that.  Continuous improvements to the flight sim.  Will wonders never cease?  It's not a bug, it's a feature!

Hook

Mathijs is hardly an unbiased source. He has been making a very big deal about his links to Asobo, and the fact that he is distributing MSFS for them. Aerosoft have also not been producing much in the way of quality products for Prepar3d v5, so it's not surprising that their addon sales have dropped. I'm sure I've spent a thousand bucks on P3D addons this year, but hardly any of that has been Aerosoft. If they made some top-tier planes or some real P3D v5 airports rather than rehashed, overpriced "Professional" versions then maybe we'd do more business.

So Mathijs says the ratio of P3D to MSFS will be 1:500. Sure, maybe. What about the ratio of P3D to MSFS when you look at "people who will spend $100 on an addon plane". I think you'll find P3D scores a lot more highly there. MSFS's prime purpose is gaming. Prepar3d's is not. The gamers who were illicitly using P3D may leave, but that sim will still exist for its core purpose.

Go and look over on the PMDG forum where serious airline simmers tend to congregate. There's interest in MSFS, but also plenty of people planning to continue with their Prepar3d journey. The death of other simulators has been greatly exaggerated.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by OzWhitey

I’m also somebody that hasn’t touched a flight sim in the past two decades and plan to really learn in MSFS and will most likely purchase add one thought not in the $90 ballpark.  I don’t care for study level aircraft but a wider variety of aircraft + a nice handcrafting of my local Minneapolis/St. Paul international would get my money. 

9 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Wow, an actual paper manual.  And a keyboard chart!  When was the last time we saw a keyboard chart!?  I don't need the discs, but can I get the rest of the stuff?  Pretty please?  I don't live in Europe.

Yeah, the manual handbook even seems to be hardcover.

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by tweekz

8 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Go and look over on the PMDG forum where serious airline simmers tend to congregate. There's interest in MSFS, but also plenty of people planning to continue with their Prepar3d journey. The death of other simulators has been greatly exaggerated.

Ah, so THAT's where all the "Serious Simmers" went after getting banned from Avsim for constant bashing and hate speech on the Microsoft Flight foums. 😄  I was wondering why the PMDG support forums closed down here and moved to PMDG. 🙂  Well, now we're ALL happier.

I'm surprised they have any interest at all in MSFS considering how GAcentric it is.  P3D won't die, FSX hasn't died, F9 didn't die.  Life goes on.

I have to wonder how various developers really feel, not just what they say in public, about MSFS.  The major market is going to be shifting and developers will be forced to shift as well in order to keep up.  Not all of them are happy about this, but are limited in what they can say at the moment.

I'm curious at how quickly the third party market for MSFS will pick up.

Hook

39 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

Mathijs is hardly an unbiased source. He has been making a very big deal about his links to Asobo, and the fact that he is distributing MSFS for them. Aerosoft have also not been producing much in the way of quality products for Prepar3d v5, so it's not surprising that their addon sales have dropped. I'm sure I've spent a thousand bucks on P3D addons this year, but hardly any of that has been Aerosoft. If they made some top-tier planes or some real P3D v5 airports rather than rehashed, overpriced "Professional" versions then maybe we'd do more business.

So Mathijs says the ratio of P3D to MSFS will be 1:500. Sure, maybe. What about the ratio of P3D to MSFS when you look at "people who will spend $100 on an addon plane". I think you'll find P3D scores a lot more highly there. MSFS's prime purpose is gaming. Prepar3d's is not. The gamers who were illicitly using P3D may leave, but that sim will still exist for its core purpose.

Go and look over on the PMDG forum where serious airline simmers tend to congregate. There's interest in MSFS, but also plenty of people planning to continue with their Prepar3d journey. The death of other simulators has been greatly exaggerated.

Bout as bias as your opinion? However, unlike yourself, Mathijs actually runs a company that SELLs add-ons.  He's implicitly informing us of Aersoft's direction; said direction is based on available market data.  After all, they sell P3D products and understand the sales numbers/market far more than we do.  Also, unlike yourself, his ability feed himself and his family is predicated on predicting market shifts. In short, your opinion is based on anecdotal 'evidence' while his is based on actual market data.  To that point, PMDG has the same data and made similar overtures towards P3D.  Have you read RR comments?  In his comments he identified P3D V5 limitations (same as Mathis) and praised MSFS as the 'true next-gen sim.'  Do you think it's odd that after a decade of no discounts, we've seen three PMDG sales in the calendar year?  Do you honestly believe you'll see another fresh PMDG aircraft for P3D?  I doubt it; instead, PMDG will use their resources to port their existing line-up to MSFS. So, they're development will cease as well; sure, you'll get the occasional update to existing add-ons, but I doubt they're will be anything new. It will probably take 2-3 years just to port their existing line-up to MSFS.   

Concerning the comments on the PMDG board, why should there be anything other than in interest in MSFS?  Said forum is a support aperture for current PMDG products; currently, there are no MSFS aircraft.  Wait until the 737 is released for MSFS,,,I bet the forum will morph to MSFS-centric focus.    

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by kingm56

20 minutes ago, OzWhitey said:

So Mathijs says the ratio of P3D to MSFS will be 1:500. Sure, maybe. What about the ratio of P3D to MSFS when you look at "people who will spend $100 on an addon plane". I think you'll find P3D scores a lot more highly there. MSFS's prime purpose is gaming. Prepar3d's is not. The gamers who were illicitly using P3D may leave, but that sim will still exist for its core purpose.

Go and look over on the PMDG forum where serious airline simmers tend to congregate. There's interest in MSFS, but also plenty of people planning to continue with their Prepar3d journey. The death of other simulators has been greatly exaggerated.

It’s only a matter of time.

Once the developers they worship, like PMDG and the likes hop onboard, which they already have or eventually will, it’ll only be a matter of time before they’ll swallow their P3D fandom and get onboard MSFS.

I’m not against P3D, but the whole notion of P3D = Simmer and MSFS =/= Simmer will quickly become a fallacy in front of their very own eyes.
 

Sure you’ll have your casual gamer audience, which is necessary for the wide-ranging appeal to make MSFS a financial success, but that doesn’t necessarily rule out the serious simmers from adopting MSFS. 

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

My recommended controls, in order of importance:

1. A joystick, preferably with a throttle.  Thrustmaster is a good brand.
2. TrackIR (or VR when you get around to it).  Being able to look around naturally adds more to the entire experience than anything but a joystick.
3. Throttle.  Looks like you may already have one.
4. Rudder Pedals.  These make a big difference in flying and even more so on the ground and are better than a twist grip joystick, which works until you get pedals.  MSFS with the current flight model doesn't need rudder pedals in the air, so hold off on that purchase until it matters.
5. A yoke.  Optional, as you can fly anything with a joystick, but some people like them and swap out depending on what they're flying.  I used to do this.

Lots of people like DCS for air combat or even just flying.  There are a lot of people here flying both.  I haven't tried it myself.

Hook

 

Yes, throttle comes with it. Although you can twist the joystick for rudder control, the throttle also has a rudder control paddle on the back of it, which I'm finding more intuitive so far.

I enjoy VR, but there is little I can experience without inducing sickness. Thankfully flying isn't one of those things (I've tested it in Elite Dangerous), so this is one of few games that is making me consider investing in my own VR headset, someday, and a PC  to handle it. At the moment, I have no intention to do that; I only built this PC just over a year ago, and it's a powerful enough microATX system that can run everything so far on ultra settings in 1080p.

21 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Ah, so THAT's where all the "Serious Simmers" went

Don't forget to include the TM bit, otherwise you'll upset them, and then they won't let you ride on their toy aeroplane. It's Serious Simmers™

Edited August 16, 20205 yr by Chock

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

Sales of P3D stuff is very low.  Well, yeah, thank Microsoft for that for announcing MSFS as early as it did.  They didn't do us any favors.  Then months of teasing which was starting to turn people off.  Then leaked videos on a Chinese site that brought a lot of us back (yeah, me too).  A pre-order system with absolutely no incentive.  Guess which tester(s) haven't pre-ordered. 

Yep I agree. MS has set flight simming back at least 2-3 years. It has been 1 year already and I am thinking it may be 2 years before we see much new stuff for P3D or Xplane because all the Dev's will be after the low hanging fruit with MS2020. You can't blame them for grabbing up the sacks filled with easy money. If the hobby is to survive, I fear the only hope is that in 2 or 3 years this new sim will reach a point passed Alpha/Beta and allow for deeper systems and such.

6 minutes ago, March Hare said:

I enjoy VR, but there is little I can experience without inducing sickness.

I had some problems with motion sickness when I first got TrackIR.  Then I discovered the trick of always moving your eyes in the direction you're moving your head.  Then the brain isn't tricked into thinking it's been poisoned and wants to empty your stomach.  All motion sickness went away when I started doing that.

Good luck!

Hook