11 minutes ago, devgrp said:

I don't judge. I've been into flight sims since the early Jane fighter jet sims. I just don't understand people complaining about default planes that's not up to their standards 

We all have things we like and dislike and Avsim is a good place to express those opinions. Some people pick at the tiniest little thing, others roll along and ignore all but the worst problems. 

Everyone is entitled to express their opinions in a sensible manner - it's only when they express the same opinion over and over that topics get locked and people get time off.  🙂 

10 minutes ago, devgrp said:

I don't judge. I've been into flight sims since the early Jane fighter jet sims. I just don't understand people complaining about default planes that's not up to their standards 

The big difference here is that all previous FS versions we never had to spend much time with the default. Much of the stuff from 2002 (FS8?) dropped into FS9 fairly straightforward and  ditto FS9>>>FSX with maybe the authors making a few tweaks. Given the reports from PMDG (not that I'm interested in paying their prices) and such circumstances affecting other aircraft developers, it might be some time before we can arrive at a similar situation with FS20. At this point I would love to be able to spin up a decent freeware DC10 or 757 or even something from Just Flight, but that could be months away yet.

I'm actually coming round to the thought that other than the odd bit of VFR sightseeing, FS20 is maybe best left on the sideline for a few months see whether it matures into a drinkable wine or turns to vinegar. By early 2021 we should have a better idea when or if something better than the default will land.

Must be really dangerous to be a baby being bathed at the moment... 

Hey ! OP... Just how Dare you use the word UNINSTALL, without my permission ?!

This has come just too far ....

2 minutes ago, Elvensmith said:

I'm actually coming round to the thought that other than the odd bit of VFR sightseeing, FS20 is maybe best left on the sideline for a few months see whether it matures into a drinkable wine or turns to vinegar. By early 2021 we should have a better idea when or if something better than the default will land.

Is it really that bad? I'm not a real pilot, and my last flight simulator was FSX, so perhaps that's why I naively think the sim side is good (unfinished stuff like glass cockpits notwithstanding). 

I can't blame the OP for feeling that way.  I've been trying to hold on and avoid going back to FSX/P3D but there are *so* many issues that it's tempting.  If we all decide to step away for a few months, there will be nothing to encourage the devs to fix bugs.  Quite the opposite, they might give up on MSFS.

11 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Hey ! OP... Just how Dare you use the word UNINSTALL, without my permission ?!

This has come just too far ....

Jcomm, I see a lot of people complaining about the lack of study level jetliners in FS2020. Have you gotten Aerowinx PSX working in the sim? That would be the ultimate study sim.

 

Edited October 1, 20205 yr by airlinejets

1 hour ago, PurdueKev said:

With respect, that is your opinion that turboprop engine behavior being completely different from reality isn't important.  And you're welcome to it - enjoy the sim how you like. But proper turboprop engine behavior - and we are talking first just getting the engine levers to somewhat model qualitatively correct physical behavior, not even trying to match real-world engine numbers or anything - is not just "a few parameters" or "nitpicking."

If you were forced to push the control stick forward to make your aircraft go up (instead of down like its supposed to), would that be particularly satisfying to you? Because that is the kind of thing we are talking about with turboprops.

In fairness, other sims have struggled with this in their default state - MSFS is not a lone culprit. It just seems to be really off comparatively, though.

First off, I completely agree with you that it should be part of the sim, and for the most part I agree with the points you make.

However, as you said yourself, it didn't hurt the sales nor overall acceptance of the most long-standing and most successful flight simulator in the simmer community. Only thanks to inventive 3rd party developers was it possible to achieve an accurate simulation of turbo prop engines in FSX. 

For now I'm hopeful that the devs are listening to us, even with respect to issues that go beyond the scope of previous incarnations of MS FS - but I'd assume it doesn't have the highest priority now, especially with several ctd bugs in the current version.

Let's keep pushing and upvoting this issue! But those users that comment in every update thread things like "Asobo is the worst! turbo prop still not fixed!" really p me off. 

16 minutes ago, vgbaron said:

We all have things we like and dislike and Avsim is a good place to express those opinions. Some people pick at the tiniest little thing, others roll along and ignore all but the worst problems. 

Everyone is entitled to express their opinions in a sensible manner - it's only when they express the same opinion over and over that topics get locked and people get time off.  🙂 

Sometimes I have doubts about this "I'm done" discussions.

I've been trying to use relatively basic autopilot stuff in the 172 G1000 - course, altitude, rate of climb - and the same bugs keep happening after the updates. IE. take off, get some altitude and point in the general assigned course direction and as soon as I engage the AP the assigned vertical speed changes from a positive climb number to a negative value, and the 172 heads for the ground. I have to disengage the AP and take control. If I fly manually for a couple of minutes I can sometimes re-engage AP and it then starts to operate as expected. This is pretty low-level stuff.

Sure the sim has bugs.   Then I load up Discord,  and the next minute I'm flying a flight plan above beautiful scenery with 35 other Bonanza's,  enjoying the banter and the scenery below on a visceral level.   I've been to more locations,  and I've enjoyed the company of more total strangers,  than I have in ANY other sim or game.   I'm truly sad that some people are having a horrible experience.   

Sure,  I've experienced teamwork and fellowship in other games and in clans.   But in this sim,  I'm not trying to kill anyone and nobody is trying to kill me.   My pulse rate doesn't match my monitor refresh rate while I'm flying,   I can take the time to enjoy the view and the people I come across.   I guess we all want different things from this sim,   but I'm glad it released when it did.

2 hours ago, devgrp said:

I don't know why some of you guys insist on flying these heavies knowing darn well they aren't complete then have tantrums when stuff doesn't work. With such beautiful scenery you should be enjoying instead of flying 32k ft pushing buttons following a magenta line lol

Hmm, I seem to have misunderstood that Asobo had released a complete game and certain "heavies" as a premium product if you were willing to shell out a bit more money, guess I was supposed to only view it as a pretty paper weight?

10 minutes ago, airlinejets said:

Jcomm, I see a lot of people complaining about the lack of study level jetliners in FS2020. Have you gotten Aerowinx PSX working in the sim? That would be the ultimate study sim.

 

yep I am well aware of it, and it's progresses, from my daily poll of aerowinx forums, but I have simply given up on PSX, and even if I wanted to try it with MFS, my old rig would strive to make the two run at the same time... but it does look AMAZING ! and it's certainly a great use for MFS, as a scenery generator.

Just now, UAL4life said:

Hmm, I seem to have misunderstood that Asobo had released a complete game and certain "heavies" as a premium product if you were willing to shell out a bit more money, guess I was supposed to only view it as a pretty paper weight?

We've known this pretty much from release date on, we know that it was released in a state that would be sold as "early access" by other publishers, and we know that these issues take time to fix, especially when there are more critical bugs like CTDs around. There are virtually no ways to accelerate the process, at least not on the scale of months. Hire new developers, and they take months to learn the in and outs of the code base, but they won't improve your productivity. 

Concerning the money you paid, you're right, this is annoying, I'd feel the same, if my primary use case were airliners. But what are your options? You can try to get your money back, or write it off, and hope that it improves over time. I think chances are that eventually the issues get resolved. But in the meantime there's no point in repeating the same issues over and over again in a flight sim community forum. On MSFS official forums, ok, I can see the point in attracting MS's/Asobo's attention. But here? We're all just users...

The saddest thing about threads like this is that actual constructive criticism gets overshadowed by the OPs embarrassing ragequit drama routine.  The back of the hand to the forehead accompanied by a fluttering hand fan works great in movies about the Antebellum south, but is kind of silly here.

I'm loving this sim despite its flaws and Asobo's enthusiasm in every podcast and progress update video is pretty awesome.  There is a difference between calling out bugs and the over the top ranting that threads like this represent.  Believe it or not, the former is actually more likely to produce the result you claim to be desperately searching for - Asobo has said multiple times that they read forums each day to diagnose areas they need to work on.  If I were one of them reading this stuff every day, I'd probably be more likely to put weight in a sober analysis than a tirade.  People quick to temper tend to be the ones most likely to be prone to user error in my experience.