I just watched an Q&A on youtube with the Flybywire developers regarding their plans for their freeware A380 and the A320 NX mods. And I must admit I'm impressed by their plans, and from what they plan on doing with the A320NX, I really can't see other companies like FSlabs justify an expensive payware model of it. And now the FSlabs fans will surely claim that a freeware version never will be as detailed and system packed as what fslabs can produce. I can only urge you to watch the video to get a glimpse of the plans FlyByWire have for their model, and I think you will be positively surprised.

And also their A380 will be as detailed as what the SDK will allow, so good times ahead.

Why not an A350 you might ask, well they said that a payware version is already in the making by another company, so they won't compete with that.

https://youtu.be/ufzeuVXNJAA

And before you ask, NO, I haven't got any relations with the FlyByWire group, I'm just surprised of what the flight community is capable of and for FREE.

 

Jlund

2 hours ago, jlund said:

I really can't see other companies like FSlabs justify an expensive payware model of it.

why not?  what have we seen to suggest that the same exact aircraft or airport wont be reproduced by somebody else? How many different developers have released their own version of KJFK/KLAX/KSEA or their own version of the A320 or 737 over the years? There is a group working on AI traffic for MSFS too as a freeware addon but Im still pretty confident we will see a Ultimate Traffic payware addon for MSFS as well....eventually. 

2 hours ago, jlund said:

And now the FSlabs fans will surely claim that a freeware version never will be as detailed and system packed as what fslabs can produce. I can only urge you to watch the video to get a glimpse of the plans FlyByWire have for their model, and I think you will be positively surprised.

I dont really think it has anything to do with it being freeware or payware to determine who can make it better but the FBW team has their work cut out for them to match what FSLabs did with their Airbus in P3D. I would certainly buy it if they ever released one for MSFS. I still remember how amazed I was the first time I flew it. It is probably the best aircraft ever released immersion wise. Me personally I would love to see FSLabs enter the MSFS market with the A220 as I do believe we will get a quality realistic simulation of the A320 from the FBW team in due time

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by environmental_ice

Well,  I do not say this to be in any way critical of the FBW team,  since what they have done so far has greatly added to my enjoyment of MSFS, and I wish them every success in the future. But it's not generally healthy to depend/rely on freeware modders for anything, particularly long term.  Every once in a while, a freeware mod team makes something ambitious which is amazing, ground-breaking and actually gets finished, but that is not the norm.  I've seen tons of mod teams in many areas of gaming fail due to personality conflicts, drama, real life issues, lack of time, and feature creep, so much so, that my general advice towards any sort of freeware mod is just to treat it like it's a beautiful sunrise or butterfly, and marvel at it's magnificence while it lasts, and don't expect it to remain forever.  The work is hard, and it's unfair to expect that people working in their free time, and with only their own resources can work miracles.  Payware devs have the carrot and the stick of pursuing income to sharpen their ambition and narrow their focus, where freeware devs' pursuit of less tangible or definable rewards can demotivate when the going gets tough.

Of course, there are exceptions to this rule, I do love and am grateful when someone offers useful software for free, and I hate to be a Debbie downer, just seen too much over the years.  Hopefully the FBW folks will stick it out, and we'll have some great stuff from them.

35 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

  I've seen tons of mod teams in many areas of gaming fail due to personality conflicts, drama, real life issues, lack of time, and feature creep, so much so, that my general advice towards any sort of freeware mod is just to treat it like it's a beautiful sunrise or butterfly, and marvel at it's magnificence while it lasts, and don't expect it to remain forever. 

I almost went here myself but refrained as it does come off as very negative but this is just reality. Im still waiting on the project airbus A330 for FS2004 😄

I'm continually impressed by how much the community has taken the ball with MSFS and run with it.  Here's hoping Asobo get the SDK to a place soon where they can realize their ambitions fully.

4 hours ago, ShawnG said:

I've seen tons of mod teams in many areas of gaming fail due to personality conflicts, drama, real life issues, lack of time, and feature creep, so much so, that my general advice towards any sort of freeware mod is just to treat it like it's a beautiful sunrise or butterfly, and marvel at it's magnificence while it lasts, and don't expect it to remain forever. 

No different then payware developers. How many half-finished products have we seen over 30+ plus years of flight simming.... Except with a small different, we had to pay for them upfront, half finished, never finalized, dropped like a hot potato from the developer. So what is your point?

Quality freeware development is rare. Like Zibo rare. I am enjoying the FlyByWire mod tremendously and it will only get better. I see nothing negative here. 

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by Silicus

1 hour ago, environmental_ice said:

I almost went here myself but refrained as it does come off as very negative but this is just reality. Im still waiting on the project airbus A330 for FS2004 😄

ROFLMAO !!

I remember that ! im glad Project Opensky delivered !

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

No different then payware developers. How many half-finished products have I we seen over 30+ plus years of flight simming.... Except with a small different, we had to pay for them upfront, half finished, never finalized, dropped like a hot potato from the developer. So what is your point?

Quality freeware development is rare. Like Zibo rare. I am enjoying the FlyByWire mod tremendously and it will only get better. I see nothing negative here. 

Thanks for your kind words! I think the reason we've been doing so well (at least up to now) has been the fact we've accidentally stumbled across a plethora of different factors that have played in our favor. We definitely capitalized on the popularity of a new platform such as MSFS, whose default airliners have left much to desire for the serious simmer. We chose the A320 to work on, since it's a popular and extremely common short-haul airliner, and we're doing so with a completely open-source approach. MSFS's use of HTML and Javascript, languages which are well-known to most developers, have also made it easy for people to quickly learn the ropes and begin contributing.

 

Zibo's (mostly solo) work on the 737 proved that freeware aircraft could definitely compete with the ranks of study-level payware aircraft, and we're hoping to show that adding open source into the mix will be the ultimate winning formula for the freeware community. I personally have nothing against payware devs, but I feel that over time, people in the community have become too comfortable with the idea that only payware aircraft can be good, and as a result many freeware developers believe they can't compete with them, and therefore don't try. As a result, payware aircraft dominate the ecosystem with prices that keep climbing beyond reason, it seems. And given some currency conversion rates, it's pretty much impossible for users in some countries to even afford these addons.

 

We're hoping to eventually erase the stereotypes people have grown to associate with freeware projects, and inspire other developers to take on similar challenges as well. I can't wait to see what the future holds!

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, IcemanFBW said:

We're hoping to eventually erase the stereotypes people have grown to associate with freeware projects, and inspire other developers to take on similar challenges as well. I can't wait to see what the future holds!

Well I think it is absolutely brilliant!  As a team, you have already surprised with the depth and detail of this project. 

I would say go for it and really show everyone what you can do!   👍

Hopefully MS/Asobo will get with the vibe as well soon, and at least cooperate with you passively.  The acknowledgement from them that you exist and that they love your work was good, but it would be great if they let you on the planned beta releases at least so you can see what things could be broken on your project in advance.

Indeed, the FBW team is doing, as well as those that are modding the CJ4, Rob Young with the G36 and now hopefully also the DA62, and others, an AMZING job and a great contribution to the Community.

Some of these projects go so deep into details that I have to feel like "this is not real... " sometimes - in a society where pretty much nothing is offered it has to amaze me...

It's probably because they themselves have the talent but also the LOVE for the work they're doing and the aircraft they're modelling. I just hope MS can look at this examples and create a way to directly link such products to MFS's online "Store" as freeware add-ons, and bake any bureaucratic ties with their partnerships with Airbus, ...

At the same time I do look fwd for innovation also on payware platforms - I would like to see A2A announcing their first MFS-native add-on, and continue to see Aerosoft, Carenado and others continuing to offer their products for the platform too.

4 hours ago, Silicus said:

...So what is your point?

Quality freeware development is rare.

Wow, you ask what my point was, and then you stated my exact point in the next sentence...  lol

no negatives from me, I’m just trying to inject a little reality into the discussion.  Stating the truth about the history of ambitious freeware projects shouldn’t be that controversial.  These guys have been on top of it so far, hopefully they break the trend, like a few others have (zibo, m. Jahn’s  dc3 team, etc...)

2 hours ago, IcemanFBW said:

We're hoping to eventually erase the stereotypes people have grown to associate with freeware projects, and inspire other developers to take on similar challenges as well. I can't wait to see what the future holds!

I never had that stereotype  and could name at least a dozen payware products that are basically a complete waste ot money.

Some of the payware developers have gotten to complacent over the years, so it's great to see the market being reshuffled.

5 hours ago, Silicus said:

Quality freeware development is rare. Like Zibo rare. I am enjoying the FlyByWire mod tremendously and it will only get better.

Thats good to hear about FlyBYWire and the A320☺️. I saw soon with MSFS it was fairly ITB with GA and VFR, but wasnt sure on the airliners.

ps: personally speaking all payware ive bought has worked as hoped/expected. Reviews and an occasional question helps.

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by icewater5

Indeed folks like FBW and zibo have really contributed a lot to this community with their quality work and they deserve every kuddos out there! 

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by omarsmak30

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Well I think it is absolutely brilliant!  As a team, you have already surprised with the depth and detail of this project. 

I would say go for it and really show everyone what you can do!   👍

Hopefully MS/Asobo will get with the vibe as well soon, and at least cooperate with you passively.  The acknowledgement from them that you exist and that they love your work was good, but it would be great if they let you on the planned beta releases at least so you can see what things could be broken on your project in advance.

This !! I feel it would be a benefit to all parties if there was greater communication between MS/  Asobo on projects like this... It can only be good for the whole community, and would likely even increase interest further in the sim.