PLEASE: don't derail the discussion with personal attacks. There are good subjects and if we all want this game to be a simulator, or if we all want others to consider this a simulator (these are the 2 trending point of views after all), we rather keep this discussion alive with sound material so that if ever, only if ever, Asobo or Microsoft is reading it, they'll know what the Avsim simmers community think of their product.

9 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

What are you talking about? There is nothing obvious about why I was asking at all. And who said my PC was choking? Certainly wasn’t me. It’s working perfectly. I merely wanted to know. I just don’t pull the ladder up like an obnoxious man such as yourself. 

Now please, stop picking and bullying people (which you do because I’ve witnessed it here in this thread alone, never mind these forums). 
I don’t expect a response from you. And if I do get one, you won’t be getting the courtesy of a reply. 

You yourself said your pc is choking in another thread, and thats the reason why you made that silly comment about if it cant run on a 3090 how is it going to run on the xbox. 

5 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

He’s not just rude, he’s a bully. He antagonises people. He’s not here to debate, it looks like he’s just here to argue. Sure some people are abrupt, but he’s just not a nice person. 

Having different opinions is not bullying. I might agree with you or anyone else on a different subject or disagree on others. Unlike alot of guys here, I'm not a yes man and I dont really care how I'm perceived. My opinion is my opinion. Same as yours

4 minutes ago, RXP said:

PLEASE: don't derail the discussion with personal attacks. There are good subjects and if we all want this game to be a simulator, or if we all want others to consider this a simulator (these are the 2 trending point of views after all), we rather keep this discussion alive with sound material so that if ever, only if ever, Asobo or Microsoft is reading it, they'll know what the Avsim simmers community think of their product.

It wasn't a personal attack and a high amount of your post about Asobo is filled with your commercial crusade against them. So maybe you should take your own advice. You have a financial interest as a commercial member of this board. I love your product and what you have done for the community over the years but you know your opinion are extremely bias.  I respect that you are trying to invoke change so that you can sale your product in MSFS. I respect that but please stop the Asobo is evil because they won't allow me to do <this>. 

3 minutes ago, devgrp said:

Having different opinions is not bullying. I might agree with you or anyone else on a different subject or disagree on others. Unlike alot of guys here, I'm not a yes man and I dont really care how I'm perceived. My opinion is my opinion. Same as yours

I perceive you as the kind of person that is rude behind the keyboard, but in a face to face with someone, you are a real Casper Milk Toast and won't say Boo. . 

3 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I perceive you as the kind of person that is rude behind the keyboard, but in a face to face with someone, you are a real Casper Milk Toast and won't say Boo. . 

I wish there were a laugh reaction because that’s made my day hahaha 

7 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I perceive you as the kind of person that is rude behind the keyboard, but in a face to face with someone, you are a real Casper Milk Toast and won't say Boo. . 

😂😂😂 Bob you don't remember me. We used to go at it every time on FB in the p3d group. Back them you were always complaining about something. Glad to see you mellowed out a little bit. Oh and fave to face I'd still tell some of these guys that they are acting like drama queens Lmao 

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by devgrp

I've run out of popcorn...

2 minutes ago, devgrp said:

😂😂😂 Bob you don't remember me. We used to go at it every time on FB in the p3d group. Back them you were always complaining about something. Glad to see you mellowed out a little bit Lmao 

You are right, thank heavens I don't remember you. 

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

You are right, thank heavens I don't remember you. 

See Bob, that's why I loved messing with you in the p3d group. It's easy to wind ya'll up. It's not that serious man lol

51 minutes ago, RXP said:

@Alpine Scenery It is not forced labor either 😂

It is up to 3rd party to decide whether they wish to contribute, knowing they won't get any direct financial return and the code they are submitting is considered open source.

It's full of labor law issues. The problem is the structure, with open source software you sell time or support or you sell a derivative work, this isn't open source, so you're employing people illegally. There isn't a single rule that overrides one thing, it's full of gray areas like the tax code, it's up to a federal judge in the end, but large companies don't want to touch this kind of arrangement anymore, generally speaking. 

Edit
Any exchange of something valuable for labor that the other party benefits more from than yourself without an employment contract is a form of economic impingement or duress, and especially problematic when one of the parties is a fortune 500 company. If two parties involved have similar structures or are at least of a certain financial means, then it's fine. There are exceptions like internships, but they are structured as such and exempted by a rule known as the "primary beneficiary test" under FLSA. When you get outside of internships and start providing direct free labor to a corp that is selling something, the FLSA rules are very strict and it can cost the companies millions in fines or lawsuits (and it has).

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by Alpine Scenery

10 minutes ago, DylanM said:

I've run out of popcorn...

Yeah, Avsim threads have a very high attrition rate with popcorn.

And the funny thing is, people just don't learn. All of this whining about this and that with MSFS is something which occurs with every simulator. Frankly, if you searched through the Avsim archives, grabbed a post from six months after the release of literally any version of Microsoft Flight Simulator from the past 20 years, then went through it and changed the text from FSX/FS2002 etc to MSFS, changed the word Aces to Asobo, then put today's date on it and pasted it this forum, I'd defy anyone to spot the difference.

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by Chock

10 minutes ago, devgrp said:

See Bob, that's why I loved messing with you in the p3d group. It's easy to wind ya'll up. It's not that serious man lol

I should remember you, I generally remember trolls....  I always add them to my blocked list.  😉 

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by Bobsk8

@RXP

Just a post to tell you that your detailed contributions  are appreciated. We know that your are a commercial member of the forum and we can put things in perspective.  Your technical explanations are nonetheless bringing value here contrary to those who can only eruct words like nonsense or crybaby ! 

 

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by Dominique_K

3 minutes ago, Chock said:

All of this whining about this and that with MSFS is something which occurs with every simulator. Frankly, if you searched through the Avsim archives, grabbed a post from six months after the release of literally any version of Microsoft Flight Simulator from the past 20 years, then went through it and changed the text from FSX/FS2002 etc to MSFS, changed the word Aces to Asobo, then put today's date on it and pasted it this forum, I'd defy anyone to spot that's what had occurred.

Exactly! This thread, and all the ones like it that have accompanied every release for 20 years, are peak Avsim. What's especially funny to me is that the reaction seems to be the same regardless of the actual state (good or bad) of the simulator in question.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, Flight was genuinely a mess (what was the pitch? "Let's take this 6-year-old sim with graphics that were average when originally released, make it 5% prettier, reduce the scope from the whole world to Hawaii, and add some 'gamey' features to try to pull in non flight-simmers"?). MSFS, whatever you think of its virtues or flaws, is not Flight. Flight did too little, too late, in iterating over FSX; MSFS is a revolutionary technological/graphical leap forward for sims. Flight deliberately locked out third-party developers; MSFS has kept an open architecture and is working directly with at least some of them. Flight was apparently meant to appeal to "gamers" without any thought given to how it could actually do that effectively; MSFS is trying to pull in gamers and simmers alike. Flight lasted less than five months, with the writing on the wall within about a month; MSFS is going strong after seven months. Have there been missteps? Sure. But MSFS is not making the same mistakes Flight did. I'm sorry, but to persist in thinking otherwise simply requires willful blindness.

I understand frustration from people who are running into showstopping performance bugs, I really do. I'm all for calling out problems. But the "high-pitched" MSFS criticism you get here at Avsim just seems unmoored from reality at times. To take one example: think of how many times people here have implied or said explicitly that the performance bugs are a sign that Asobo is "deliberately dumbing MSFS down for the Xbox gamer crowd." Huh?

James