1 minute ago, OneOfMany said:

From what they say, this is probably true. However, this may not be a bad thing. Instead they have indicated many internal code changes for optimization, and at the same time rewriting code to best utilize DX12 apis. 

I personally believe that the benefits to us on the PC platform will show up on the Xbox release when we might be able to run the same code. 

I think what we currently are being offered on sim updates is more likely "some" of the available new code patched to keep the original legacy branch running (and somewhat current) 

If this is the case, resources are always best given to the new main branch, and patching what is necessary to keep the old branch running as trouble free as possible 

I wonder what would happen if the X box version was stable, had no FPS issues, and no bugs,  etc. Would PC gamers buy an X box to run MSFS? 

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder what would happen if the X box version was stable, had no FPS issues, and no bugs,  etc. Would PC gamers buy an X box to run MSFS? 

I personally don't know, but I'm sure conspiracy theories sometimes start like this 😂

With the changes to the Xbox architecture, it is more likely to be stable on PC. Of course, the insane number of permutations of hardware components will always be an issue 

20 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

while you guys are acting like cry babies. I flew all day in the CRJ. 35 FPS the whole flight. Butter smooth. Yes the game has issue but it not all of the time. 

I agree. Not all the time. To be more precise, not EVEYWHERE and EVERY TIME.

Now let's say that there are some flights that I like to do: Over Rome, near Florence, between Perth and Fremantle, in Western Australia, the landing activity in Sidney and Saint Barth, around Manhattan, over Sardinia.

Let's also say that I'm a very busy person, rarely end working before 10 pm and only have an hour or so to relax with a quick flight.

I find it very frustrating that I launch MSFS, start my flight, and then sometimes it works well (30-35 fps on ULTRA 4K), the day after it stutters, makes pauses, loses fps, for no apparent reason. Not to mention when it becomes totally unusable after the usual crippling update.

As you can see, this is no "cry baby": I'm 55 and I have a job that keeps me busy 12-14 hours a day. When I want to relax, I mean relax. I would be happy with a smooth, CONSISTENT experience, instead of this daily struggle with issues and some random good experience (like last Saturday over Rome and Sardinia for instance).

Andrea

1 hour ago, RXP said:

My 2 cents, for what it's worth: I have mixed feelings about the XBox version.

 

It's worth a lot: your technical insights are so interesting!

It is often said that when you develop for a console you have the great advantage of being able to code exactly for it, as opposed to developing for a general PC architecture and its endless, ever changing permutations of hardware components.

So one would hope that the two versions are kept on different branches, exactly to avoid that some x-box optimized code "creep" as you say into the PC version to create bottlenecks, conflicts, and whatnot.

Do you agree?

Andrea

@ADamiani Thank you for your kind words!

In an ideal world, this would be best I agree. But I doubt this is the route FS2020 is taking and there are many indications of this:

- Starting with the UI sliders, thought for being manipulated with left/right controller buttons. It is much more difficult grabbing the small dot with the mouse especially in VR, and a PC version could benefit from the mouse wheel to dial the values more easily. Let's just pretend this is an oversight though, then what about the UI without a direct access to sub topics with a mouse driven menu? I mean a computer mouse is offering much more than point and click but the UI is meant to be navigable with a joystick instead.

- Then the UI not saving the user preferences in the map/pre-flight view. It is a pain to go to opening the map settings and disable the things I don't want to see there. But this point is not much XBox centric though, it is more in my opinion a MSFT centric view they know better about how you're supposed to use the interface. The same problem is blatantly visible when comparing the WMR and the SteamVR ecosystems and the level of customization available.

- On top of this you have the settings saved into hidden files indexed in a binary nonsense, instead of text files. I mean the main graphics settings are in clear text in UserCfg.opt, but the controller/mouse/keyboard profiles are hidden in a Xbox centric way: Backup function (export/import) for the controls settings - Self-Service / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

- Speaking of controllers, have you tried adjusting the sensitivity values? Isn't it funny the width of the slider is smaller in pixels (or at least in discrete steps) than the range of values it is supposed to let you adjusting? It is perfect to fit in the limited TV resolution space for those running on 1080p (still 2/3 gamers on Steam Hardware Survey) but what about people on 4K monitors on PC?

These are just some examples of the UI design and how the Xbox paradigm is already infused in the game, and to me this is a clear indication there is a one-size fit all approach, and this makes sense, because it is costing less and it is taking less time.

 

And let's not forget Microsoft is pushing the concept of code once / cross-play. Which is another problem for the simulator franchise to me with respect to sharing the sky:

Help solving arcade and simmers players sharing the airspace with the help of a simple nudge - Self-Service / Wishlist - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

Interview with Jorg Neumann (Head of Microsoft Flight Simulator) on future updates and plans, AI, the airport gateway, the Xbox version, the Garmin, and a lot more - Community / General Discussion - Microsoft Flight Simulator Forums

 

And I won't slide the discussion into the SDK further either, but I'd just say if their goal is really to make a PC and an Xbox branch, they would be already supporting loading 3rd party compiled code into DLLs...

Edited March 24, 20215 yr by RXP

Maybe we are all just beta testers for Xbox and after its launched they could care less about the pc based users

New here! Used Flight Simulator in early 80s on Apple IIe. Then 1990 on a MacSE. I had a pilot teach me instrument flying on that Mac. Helped a lot. Never thought of it as a game then. Now have Flight Simulator 2020 (21?) and a decent laptop to do my virtual flying.

Just now, Denwagg said:

Maybe we are all just beta testers for Xbox and after its launched they could care less about the pc based users

talk about the ridiculous statement of the year right there. Bravo !

Thank you

I think with the advent of gamepass, and the ability of Phil Spencer to prove to Nadella that gaming is a hugely profitable sector of the Microsoft portfolio, the viability of this game /sim is not going to be dismissed over a few issues. As mentioned above, the cross play capability built into the new console is proof of the write once/deploy many for game developers. And with the ability to run 4k/60 on Xbox, I believe the engine will be optimized for this. Of course settings should be available for PCs to upgrade or downgrade the eye candy as required. 

Oh there are now many theories and emotions in this thread 😅. Okay no body know how this will turn, even Jörg himself (if you listened to his latest interview) has no idea how the reception of in XBox will be. So yeah, let's for now chill ourselves, enjoy MSFS (after they fix the performance bug) and wait till summer to see how it will turn out

8 hours ago, GSalden said:

It will be released on the XBox platform : isn’t that the platform for “Games”... ? If you can do everything with a game controller would you call that a flight simulator ?

 

Would you call the Airbus A320 a real plane? After all, it doesn't have a yoke....

11 hours ago, RXP said:

My 2 cents, for what it's worth: I have mixed feelings about the XBox version.

Your contributions to this thread give a solid technical background to the intuition and worries of the OP and some of us. Thank you for taking the time. 

Making flight simulation accessible to a broader audience is just corporate B S for selling more which means adapting the product to a customer base with a lower acceptance of complexity. 

The question to us is to know whether a true sim kernel can be kept within the game. Can we have side by side users fooling around with their controllers and users playing the game the old fashion way. Will the rewriting pollute the game as it is now and should be in the future.  The evolution since  August raises questions. 

On another level, if they release the Xbox rewriting as ridden of problems as the PC version which looks more and more a warming up more than a priority, they are in for a major backlash. Bribing YT/Twitch reviewers with hardware gifts and exposure as they did last Fall might not be enough.

I spoke earlier of Joshua Howard who is seen as the killer of the franchise in his search of a new model of profitability with Flight. Lets hope that Neuman doesn’t do the same with Asobo’s baby, an already fairly nice baby who could grow to be a very nice young man if properly educated 😄. 

Edited March 25, 20215 yr by Dominique_K

8 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I wonder what would happen if the X box version was stable, had no FPS issues, and no bugs,  etc.