Just now, omarsmak30 said:

Sure not all of us have 50,000euros to spend on home cockpit (I envy you by the way 😉). 

Everyone is enjoying what he or she has. 
My cockpit has 1 very big negative thing : I cannot change to another aircraft and try them inside MSFS... 

So I like to look at Captain Canada and his Live flights 😄

1 minute ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

Exactly - for ProSim MSFS SDK doesn't even have to be "advanced". All calculations are done inside the ProSim itself, not MSFS. MSFS (or in your case, P3D) is just used as a scenery generator. Same story for Aerowinx PSX, which works perfectly fine in MSFS.

https://forum.prosim-ar.com/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=20505

Just now, GSalden said:

https://forum.prosim-ar.com/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=20505

I don't see any game breaking issues than flight model? I really can't see your point, ProSim AR could even be configured to run in GTA V, does that make it an ultra realistic flight simulator?

7 minutes ago, BiologicalNanobot said:

I don't see any game breaking issues than flight model? I really can't see your point, ProSim AR could even be configured to run in GTA V, does that make it an ultra realistic flight simulator?

Luckily Ps is also in contact with Asobo and exchanging info on how to make it work.
But it is not possible at the moment.

What you and I think might be the look on the outside. Programmers working for PMDG and Prosim look way deeper than that.

 

40 minutes ago, Gilandred said:

There actually are some nice looking vids out there.  But you need a beast PC and $$$ to make it so.

The person that made the video that I watched last night purposely took P3D as it came out of the box. No weather add ons, Orbx $2000 worth of airports, $120 a copy aircraft, etc... Stock everything, and it looked like terrible. That was the point of the video. 

Otherwise on this topic (and as a simmer - not as RXP), there are many posts arguing about people, not the simulator, and I'm a little bit sadden this is always turning like this. It is certain we'll never agree with each other whatsoever because we each see the simulator differently and we each feel the experience differently. It is normal.

The point of this topic is whether FS2020 is just a videogame, and without entering any arguing about the very definition of this word, I believe the argument is about whether this is a simulator for simmers or a simulator for gamers. Saying this again will raise some vile exchanges, so please without picking words, I'm certain we all share a certain common vision of what this means when classifying the genre in these two broad categories.

My 2 cents is very simple: FS2020 is a simulator there is no denial. It also as AAA graphics, visually, compared to other simulator no matter how much post-processing you use on P3D or XP11. AAA graphics goes also beyond contrast, colors and look and feel. However FS2020 is also a game. It is designed to lowering entry barrier for newcomers and the Xbox version will certainly contribute to bringing more folks to the party. And this is where there might be the biggest challenge if this discussion is any indication. In effect, I strongly believe a certain number of "simmers" will always perceive the Xbox version as lost energy better spent on the PC version (which is inferring "simmer"). And to some extent, and I've documented the technical aspects of it, I also believe the XBox version is not entirely positive with respect to the PC version.

Nevertheless, it is not much a matter of Xbox + PC or PC only, in the end, the franchise will survive only if it is profitable and this will be achieved mostly through the market place. Microsoft is taking a sizeable cut of every sales on the market place, and they will most likely sell their on DLC I don't doubt about this. The question this poses is who will be purchasing DLC during the entire 10 years product life span. I personally don't believe the Xbox users will sustain the market place for so long unless. Many Xbox players are very volatile. It doesn't take long for the new AAA game to raffle most of the attention and gamer time, until the next one. I don't have any stats but I wouldn't be surprised only a small fraction of peek gamers on a title are continuing using it after 2 years. If this fraction is sufficient enough and are most likely also committed to the title they'll most likely sustain purchasing DLC as well. And if they don't, MSFT is leveraging all social and psychological aspects of gaming already in FS2020 to keep the users coming back. The "free" US/JP/UK DLC are there for a reason: keeping you engaged and grabbing your attention time span.

Having said this, from my experience during the last 20 years working in this industry and the last 40 years using all form of flight simulators (I started very early, or I'm old, I let you figure which one is true LOL), is telling me this is a different genre which is really well suited to PC gaming more than console gaming, for a simple reason: using any simulator beyond just piloting commands for more. More screens, more peripherals, more simultaneous sources of information (additional windows floating around), more technology, more performance, more latest-and-greatest mods, more 3rd party add-ons. The PC is the open platform permitting all this. On the other hand, console gaming is all about plug and play, about a quick shot of adrenaline, about guarantees there is no cheater, about equal field level playing because we all have the same hardware and controllers (and this is one of the reason I don't like cross play games especially with FPS genre where a mouse vs a controller is not the same, among other things).

All this long text to say I'm not really sure how Microsoft is selling the Xbox version as beneficial to the PC simmers is really for the reasons they are invoking. I'm not saying it won't be good for the PC version though, just that the message and the reality are different. The reason it might be good for the PC version is because it will sustain some of the income to the development via DLC. But I'm not certain this will last as long as with PC simmers who will spend much more over a longer period of time. And this is where I'm not sure what means a "simulator for simmers" in their communications, because what they are explaining vs what they are delivering is not entirely matching up, as seen from the number of opposing arguments in this topics and many more.

We all want this franchise to succeed, as much as we all want P3D and XPlane franchises to succeed to. I'm sure about this. If not for the love of simming with a variety of platforms each with its own strength, at least to prevent contributing to building a monopoly which in the end will restrict our choices. Competition is not good, even if you're a strong proponent of capitalism. Competition is destructive and you can see how much we're trying to destroy each other arguments in this topic, instead of building up and uniting our forces and desires.

Please don't taint this as a "union" tainted speech either, even if this sounds like this 🙂 But when I read some reactions to my posts where some are trying to prove I'm wrong form a technical standpoint, even if I am without me knowing, instead of wondering why a seasoned 3rd party developers in this industry is raising such questions, this makes me wondering if this community is really wanting this franchise, let alone the genre, to succeed.

 

I agree with you @RXP! The reality is, there is too much uncertainty in regards to the xbox version, we literally have no idea how it will turns up. Even you listen to Jörg's latest interview, he himself has no idea how the reception will be which shows a lot uncertainty here.

My two cents, even if the xbox release fails, but they have enough user base on the PC version to sustain the PC version for the next 9 years, I would be happy. 

I think their plan was always PC first. Aerosoft CRJ sales shows already that MSFS is in a very healthy position right now. So much that even PMDG realize they want that MSFS $$$$$.

1 minute ago, omarsmak30 said:

I agree with you @RXP! The reality is, there is too much uncertainty in regards to the xbox version, we literally have no idea how it will turns up. Even you listen to Jörg's latest interview, he himself has no idea how the reception will be which shows a lot uncertainty here.

My two cents, even if the xbox release fails, but they have enough user base on the PC version to sustain the PC version for the next 9 years, I would be happy. 

I know some X Box gamers, and frankly, I can't see any of them devoting themselves into learning a flight sim properly. They will fly it around, see if they can find an aircraft with guns or rockets, and then look for a multiplayer session where they can shoot down other aircraft. A day or two of that, and they will move on to other games that are more fun. 

I think we tend to make a lot of assumptions about XBox users.  Apparently Laminar Research makes bank on XP mobile.  I would never in a million years have thought that.  

Just now, Bobsk8 said:

I know some X Box gamers, and frankly, I can't see any of them devoting themselves into learning a flight sim properly. They will fly it around, see if they can find an aircraft with guns or rockets, and then look for a multiplayer session where they can shoot down other aircraft. A day or two of that, and they will move on to other games that are more fun. 

Sorry but I don't think you can assume that. Once upon the time, when I had a Playstation 1 when I was a gamer as teen/kid, I felt in love with this game that because of it, for real, I figured it out that I love simming, you had no idea how much time I used to spend on it 🙂 and I am pretty sure there are many kids/teens will get to know that as well:

 

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

I know some X Box gamers, and frankly, I can't see any of them devoting themselves into learning a flight sim properly. They will fly it around, see if they can find an aircraft with guns or rockets, and then look for a multiplayer session where they can shoot down other aircraft. A day or two of that, and they will move on to other games that are more fun. 

My 2 sons first would first try to fly a 747 upside down under a bridge ....✈️ 

 

4 minutes ago, GSalden said:

My 2 sons first would first try to fly a 747 upside down under a bridge ....✈️ 

 

based on the number of "simmers" here who have complained about the fact they couldn't fly under the bridges because of the walls.. I don't think that idea is unique to gamers 🙂

GE

I think really this community has serious problem thinking itself above anyone else. If you got a cockpit or whatsoever, that doesn't make you special and above anyone's else. What is the problem if a teen or kid, taking his/her 747 under the bridge? But there will be other portion of these kids/teens that will want more, isn't? 

I am really disappointed of this community that wants itself to be special above others, I bet many of you behind these keyboard are double aged as I am and I bet you will be happy to see your kids to be also attracted to the the same hobby as yours, share the same discussion, hell ya I will be super happy as father, in fact there is a user in the official forums, he mentioned that he always simming with his son (of course separately). Yes I really got to love simming through these "games" whatever you call it, even I got annoyed by that sim game "Jet de Go" that is dumbing things down and I wanted things more challenging to learn and thus I got myself into FS9 when I got my first PC. 

 

 

Edited March 26, 20215 yr by omarsmak30

2 hours ago, omarsmak30 said:

I think really this community has serious problem thinking itself above anyone else. If you got a cockpit or whatsoever, that doesn't make you special and above anyone's else. What is the problem if a teen or kid, taking his/her 747 under the bridge? But there will be other portion of these kids/teens that will want more, isn't? 

I am really disappointed of this community that wants itself to be special above others, I bet many of you behind these keyboard are double aged as I am and I bet you will be happy to see your kids to be also attracted to the the same hobby you, share the same discussion, hell ya I will be super happy as father, in fact there is a user in the official forums, he mentioned that he always simming with his son (of course separately). Yes I really got to love simming through these "games" whatever you call it, even I got annoyed by that sim game "Jet de Go" that is dumbing things down and I wanted things more challenging to learn and thus I got myself into FS9 when I got my first PC. 

 

 

Well the whole VR fiasco has shown us the mindsets of the AVSIM population. “If I don’t use it, then its not important nor a priority for anyone else”

Turns out Asobo felt us VR simmers were truly special over the other grandchildren afterall😝

 

Edited March 26, 20215 yr by blueshark747