5 hours ago, Rogen said:

P3D is primarily LM's training toolset hence the no entertainment clause, and it is very advanced from where they initially took over ESP. That they loosely allow it sold to anyone for a really inexpensive cost is kudos for us.

Dovetail's goal was the entertainment market and they did advance their Flight Sim World quite a lot, but in the end they could not meet the financial costs and were forced to give it up.

While I agree on your LM statement I disagree on Dovetail. I closely followed the Develeopment of FSW from day 1. Their lacking communication with the community, snakiness and disingeniousness (recall Hood fantasizing on "development phase 2" shortly before closure) plus word not allowed behavior towards many 3PDs laid the way for failure early on.

At the end, they got what they deserved. And I don't refer to the coders but to the (mis)management.

Kind regards, Michael

17 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

The immersion coming from these training setups derives mostly from the flight-deck itself. LM's enterprise and military costumers do not give a **** about the overall aesthetics of the simulator.

Why are you so sure? Training with visibility reduction for instance is important. Or training in real world environment also.

Why do you think LM has more accurate real world data then MS has? Of course, training purposes! Yes. You can google it. LM has a huge interest in data and they own it. BUT: Data is very expensive and also most likely NOT for commercial usage as LM is and stays a military orientated company and keep their knowledge behind locked doors.

This is where we are left behind and even LM can do nothing about this as they probably are restricted to contracts and governmental agreements. The reason they do not spend time on communication with "us" users, they have limited resources and they like to code....which is good for us.  

We are indeed the little fish for LM. But from my own experience I can tell you they are interested in updating the simulator technically AND visually. But LM has quite a lot 3th Party developers to take care about and LM is doing a lot to not brake compatible products with updates as good as they can! 

Marcus

Edited June 5, 20215 yr by mpo910

5 minutes ago, mpo910 said:

Why are you so sure? Training with visibility reduction for instance is important. Or training in real world environment also.

Why do you think LM has more accurate real world data then MS has? Of course, training purposes! 

Well, one just needs to see how most Level-D sims look to conclude that autogen and graphics are not priorities in that sector.

As for the other point, MSFS supports Navigraph data, so that is a non-issue to me. In any case, on the latest update it seems that the default Navblue data was also updated 

2 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Well, one just needs to see how most Level-D sims look to conclude that autogen and graphics are not priorities in that sector.

I did not say you are wrong. But you said they have no interest in how the sim looks. And that´s not accurate. But the resources are limited and they do care but their main focus is indeed another....military training purposes.

Technically and SDK wise P3D is huge and up to date! Even if it looks not that great as the competitor. But that´s another skill and ASOBO has this skill......but other skills and interests are left behind (SDK for instance).

So both have their pros and cons. And how this will progress I really don´t know.

Back to topic: I and some other Beta testers have almost daily great contact to the Developers of LM and they do a great Job for us. "We" (Beta Testers) push a lot and ask for more. Just for the community! I myself would not like to see a shift of their resources to communication instead of coding........for very good reasons!

Marcus  

Given the long wait, all I can hope for is a very good point release which brings v5 to an acceptable and more competitive level. If it doesn't deliver visually then I personally feel this is the end for LM and the sim community because nobody wants to spend 1000s on add on scenery anymore when MSFS natively has this. 

4 minutes ago, kand said:

I personally feel this is the end for LM and the sim community because nobody wants to spend 1000s on add on scenery anymore when MSFS natively has this. 

This is a statement which I did read thousand times already BEFORE MSFS got even released.....and see what happened, even more then a year after MSFS announcement.....We have lot´s of users sticking at P3D because MSFS is not capable of doing things which P3D is capable of.

And NOBODY really knows how much money MS is willing to spend to enhance the SDK....because MS does not earn money with the SDK......But with XBOX they do.....

But I agree....LM does have to do something to keep user sticking....also visually.

Lets be patience and see.

Marcus

Edited June 5, 20215 yr by mpo910

LM don`t HAVE to do anything we are not the intended target we just join in with the product, if we all leave LM will continue to develop P3D for there use. 

And to quote Phil Spencer MS is not about individual Titles but the game pass catalogue where the income will be generated, so like MS before the games that are most popular will be invested in.   

Edited June 5, 20215 yr by G-RFRY

2 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

LM don`t HAVE to do anything we are not the intended target we just join in with the product, if we all leave LM will continue to develop P3D for there use. 

I will not leave LM - I'm happy with P3D. Sure there are some bugs but in MSFS also 

14 hours ago, sbclark said:

.....another possibility to consider? 

LM Management, may be, or have been, investigating MSFS, or even negotiating a deal with Asobo/Microsoft, to adopt a "Commercial" version of MSFS? Given this situation, they may be giving pause to current development of P3D V5, to have their entire S/W development team to consider this opportunity from a technical standpoint? As a consequence, no P3D v5.3 update!!!

LM may see that MSFS will be a better longer term technological fit for their business model going forward. The sticking point will be, if they would be able to buy/lease the "source code," to make the necessary code changes for their commercial customers, which may exclude all of us P3D users.

Just saying....

Bill Clark

This ^.  Seems likes a great opportunity for LM to let someone else do the heavy development lifting.  The only caveat I see here is that LM and it's primary customers may not want to rely on internet-based scenery loading, but I suspect there are workarounds from a security perspective.

2 hours ago, mpo910 said:

This is a statement which I did read thousand times already BEFORE MSFS got even released.....and see what happened, even more then a year after MSFS announcement.....We have lot´s of users sticking at P3D because MSFS is not capable of doing things which P3D is capable of.

And NOBODY really knows how much money MS is willing to spend to enhance the SDK....because MS does not earn money with the SDK......But with XBOX they do.....

But I agree....LM does have to do something to keep user sticking....also visually.

Lets be patience and see.

Marcus

There are already many addons released for MSFS, while there have been released just a few for P3D. Developers go where they can make the most money....

Patience ? We are talking about intermediate updates not version updates. This is taking way too long.  Since august last year EA has not been improved. Only a few new entries in the VolumetricClouds.cfg file. Still dawn/dusk shows a too red sky and unsharp clouds. 
In 2 months we are having EA a year ....

If this continues like it is going now only few users will remain for P3D. But as we never where the main target for LM that will not be of an issue for them....

What do you mean by "LM's silence". They don't need to even inform us about any updates. Just because we are buying their license doesn't mean they "have" to update us or talk to us about everything they do. And moreover on this topic, LM in reality doesn't care about us minority simmers, they have much much muuuuchhhh bigger fish to fry.

They launched this last month, https://www.space.com/spy-satellite-nrol-82-delta-iv-heavy-rocket-launch

Hopefully they will keep their space research aside now and concentrate on us simmers 😂

Edited June 5, 20215 yr by Nocturnal

4 hours ago, mpo910 said:

Why do you think LM has more accurate real world data then MS has? Of course, training purposes! Yes. You can google it. LM has a huge interest in data and they own it. BUT: Data is very expensive and also most likely NOT for commercial usage as LM is and stays a military orientated company and keep their knowledge behind locked doors.

They have their own satellites and systems... Having said that I doubt they will ever make this data public since it is used for defense purposes.

There is a reason why some people have attempted to use Google maps services to replace MSFS, it is not a secret it is not up to date.. 

S.

1 hour ago, GSalden said:

Patience ? We are talking about intermediate updates not version updates. This is taking way too long.  Since august last year EA has not been improved. Only a few new entries in the VolumetricClouds.cfg file. Still dawn/dusk shows a too red sky and unsharp clouds. 
In 2 months we are having EA a year ....

I personally asked to LM to delay any further releases until certain things are fully addressed with EA and the simulator.

If you want to blame someone for delays, then blame me.. Each beta drop I keep pointing out eye candy stuff they need to fix or implement.. In fact they contacted me to implement something in the SDK that I asked a while ago (related also to eye candy ) and I told them to do that later in order to prioritize certain improvements we requested to EA.

So there you have it... You can blame me (others beta testers which I will not name also supported my request) for all thee long wait if it makes you feel better.

I still would like to keep delaying it because in my view the next point release is crucial.. But Let's see how that goes.

Personally (others testers too) I am just asking LM for stuff you people keep asking here and many other social media sites and forms, Rome was not built in 7 days.. And XP / P3D has now a long way to catch up..

So my advice?  Enjoy all platforms, each has its benefits and none of them are stopping development.

Regarding the silence, I said it many times.. They have this policy as a company, I doubt they will change it.. So if this bothers you, you better move on to another platform.

Regards,

Simbol 

 

4 hours ago, GCBraun said:

Well, one just needs to see how most Level-D sims look to conclude that autogen and graphics are not priorities in that sector.

As for the other point, MSFS supports Navigraph data, so that is a non-issue to me. In any case, on the latest update it seems that the default Navblue data was also updated 

GCBraun if I can help you understand why this is the case. I have spent a lot of time in real world full motion simulators. The graphics is only a small part of the sim in fact a quick view out of the front through the windscreen, the rest is full scale replica of the real aeroplane type (all of it as far as the cockpit is concerned) along with physical motion. Your fly these type of aeroplanes by the numbers and you have to know the systems and the procedures - there is no time for sightseeing out the window - your immersed in an IFR procedural world and you can be loaded up with failures and emergencies in a manner that would make your head spin. The fighter style sims have even more motion and the spherical visuals are also to enhance the training experience - if your at or above the speed of sound, you do not have time to sightsee eiher, you want enough to visually identify key features then it is back on the clocks, and head on a swivel doing a proper lookout.You don't identify a target visually then go after it, the radar finds it at high speeds any target is a dot on the horizon until about 30 secs later when it fills your windscreen. The systems drive the ordinance delivery and the aeroplane, your just the caretaker. P3D graphics in this environment are actually superb, trust me, the old sim graphics were very ordinary indeed. LM are in the simulator training business not games. P3D is a very very good simulator and they are never going to cater for every hobbiest or aviation enthusiast, thats what addon developers can do if they want, LM have provided the platform and if you dig about the tools to do it as well. 

And no I do not work for LM their corporate culture is not to my taste - all big corps are the same got bureaucracies and lines of management up to the eyeballs, takes a long time for stuff to filter up through and out of those places. 

Edited June 5, 20215 yr by coastaldriver

2 hours ago, simbol said:

I personally asked to LM to delay any further releases until certain things are fully addressed with EA and the simulator.

If you want to blame someone for delays, then blame me.. Each beta drop I keep pointing out eye candy stuff they need to fix or implement.. In fact they contacted me to implement something in the SDK that I asked a while ago (related also to eye candy ) and I told them to do that later in order to prioritize certain improvements we requested to EA.

So there you have it... You can blame me (others beta testers which I will not name also supported my request) for all thee long wait if it makes you feel better.

I still would like to keep delaying it because in my view the next point release is crucial.. But Let's see how that goes.

Personally (others testers too) I am just asking LM for stuff you people keep asking here and many other social media sites and forms, Rome was not built in 7 days.. And XP / P3D has now a long way to catch up..

So my advice?  Enjoy all platforms, each has its benefits and none of them are stopping development.

Regarding the silence, I said it many times.. They have this policy as a company, I doubt they will change it.. So if this bothers you, you better move on to another platform.

Regards,

Simbol 

 

Thanks for explaining. Now we know why we haven’t seen a new update. Knowing this I don’t mind waiting longer.

Hearing nothing, seeing nothing and knowing nothing is too much after 6 months.

I know that you want it to be the best it can be. The same for Marcus and other beta testers.

Now back to flying ✈️