10 hours ago, aniiran said:

These "developers" need to stop using stock avionics!!! STOP IT!

should've told them 10 years ago, maybe then they would consider reading your comment.

warning people about virtualcol is like warning people walking into a honda dealership because they arent going to get a ferrari for their money. same with cs and bredok, its right there on the store page. seems like every person commenting on the youtube videos, reddit posts and fselite articles is some sort of whistleblower warning everyone for the oncoming addon-pocalypse

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by sem

I don't think there is one person who walks into a Honda dealership, expecting to leave the store with a Ferrari - priced like a Honda.

You pretty much get what you paid for.

And, I agree, Bredok, CS, and Virtualcol release something and judging by the hysterical reactions you would think Putin just invaded Finland.😄

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by Ricardo41

11 hours ago, aniiran said:

My opinion is if you use stock Asobo avionics it should be freeware. 

I would give them 1.99 U.S.D just for the model alone in gesture but probably would never install it.

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by jbdbow1970

2 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

I don't think there is one person who walks into a Honda dealership, expecting to leave the store with a Ferrari - priced like a Honda.

You pretty much get what you paid for.

And, I agree, Bredok, CS, and Virtualcol release something and judging by the hysterical reactions you would think Putin just invaded Finland.😄

That analogy is just wrong. At least my Honda (yeah I am biased) can do all that a Ferrari can, it is just not that good looking or fast. I could easily live with a not-so-beautiful E-Jet that, however, just functions as it should.

14 hours ago, aniiran said:

These "developers" need to stop using stock avionics!!! STOP IT!

How does it hurt you ?

The copyright owners are OK with it,  the buyers look for something of the kind and if they do their homework before buying they know  that VC products are what they are. 

In which capacity do you decide what  developers should or shouldn’t do and what  the buyer should or shouldn’t have  to buy ?

Why should it be freeware when the dev has spent labor and money in his works ? 
 

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by Dominique_K

1 hour ago, Fiorentoni said:

That analogy is just wrong. At least my Honda (yeah I am biased) can do all that a Ferrari can, it is just not that good looking or fast. I could easily live with a not-so-beautiful E-Jet that, however, just functions as it should.

thats my point, dont go warning people about virtualcol being bad in their opinion because vcol always made these types of aircraft and everything about that aircraft is in a video/preview/storepage

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by sem

3 hours ago, sem said:

Blame asobo for going to the new system with gauges, p3d and fsx had a nice panel.cfg type sytem which would allow this.

Blame Asobo....right!

4 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

I may well be on the wrong track here but for the life of me, I simply cannot find a stock standard or updated DC6 in real life, sporting anything like a GTN anything.  The original pilots/aircrew of the real thing knew how to navigate with out these modern amenities.  It is therefore, just a "sop" to simmers and really just an additional modern navigation device.  Hey, this is just my personal opinion so don't re-arm with missiles to shoot me down.

I think that if real world pilots or real world simmers want absolute realism (and I think that PMDG nail this aspec .... I am not an owner or consumer by the way) they would be ignoring this "add on" anyway.

I don't know the providence of this picture - it was posted to the PMS GTN 750 Discord - but it looks to show aDC-6 with two GTN 750s installed in the main panel.

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by Matchstick

I'm straying off topic but a lot of these airworthy old birds are so equipped today (reference GTN pic).  At least in the US, you'll want RNAV(GPS) it's just a lot easier especially if you were flying a huge DC6 into the National Airspace System.

I've seen P51's with newer Garmin GPS too.  Pilots who are actively flying these amazing machines in the "system" often will have a GPS.

5 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

How does it hurt you ?

The copyright owners are OK with it,  the buyers look for something of the kind and if they do their homework before buying they know  that VC products are what they are. 

In which capacity do you decide what  developers should or shouldn’t do and what  the buyer should or shouldn’t have  to buy ?

Why should it be freeware when the dev has spent labor and money in his works ? 
 

Respectfully disagree.  If this is the garbage that comes out that completely misrepresents the aircraft, then most of the addons are going to develop pre conceived reputation from newcomers and end up being a bad experience that maybe throws the sim to the shelf so to speak..   Copying and pasting this gauge from this aircraft, this fmc from this aircraft, and another part of the panel from another said aircraft, is just ridiculous. Sorry if this feels like its unfair, but to all us simmers who have been around a long time, investing alot of money on addons thru the years, that at least try to simulate the aircraft presented, this ends up being a slap in the face. At the very least make it look like an E-175 and function with the proper FMC, and proper displays. Not cookie cutter. The variability of system depth can determine the price for labor and time. Instead, its all a quick money grab that takes advantage of unsuspecting individuals. 

1 minute ago, HighTowers said:

Respectfully disagree.  If this is the garbage that comes out that completely misrepresents the aircraft, then most of the addons are going to develop pre conceived reputation from newcomers and end up being a bad experience that maybe throws the sim to the shelf so to speak..  

I didn't say I liked it, I wouldn't touch the product with a long pole myself.

 All I say is that it is  a legit product (no copyright violation) and that  the buyer knows what he/she is getting if he/she has a little common sense. There will be tons of reviews explaining what the product is.

We, the users, are not in the business to rule if a product is kosher  and could be marketed or not. A slippery  slope. Furthermore, we have no right to deny  some fellow simmers the  pleasure to satisfy their bad taste in addons 😀. 

9 hours ago, himmelhorse said:

I may well be on the wrong track here but for the life of me, I simply cannot find a stock standard or updated DC6 in real life, sporting anything like a GTN anything.  The original pilots/aircrew of the real thing knew how to navigate with out these modern amenities.  It is therefore, just a "sop" to simmers and really just an additional modern navigation device.  Hey, this is just my personal opinion so don't re-arm with missiles to shoot me down.

I think that if real world pilots or real world simmers want absolute realism (and I think that PMDG nail this aspec .... I am not an owner or consumer by the way) they would be ignoring this "add on" anyway.

I think the DC6s that are still flying today do have some sort of GPS unit in them. The Red Bull DC6 has some sort of GTN I believe, the others you can do a quick search on has some sort of GPS system. If you look up V5-NCG you will be able to see an example of this. The Red Bull DC6 reg is: OE-LDM and they have also some modern looking gauges as well. 

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by Zangoose

50 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

I'm straying off topic but a lot of these airworthy old birds are so equipped today (reference GTN pic).  At least in the US, you'll want RNAV(GPS) it's just a lot easier especially if you were flying a huge DC6 into the National Airspace System.

I've seen P51's with newer Garmin GPS too.  Pilots who are actively flying these amazing machines in the "system" often will have a GPS.

Absolutely. There is some dogmatism in the WB or vintage aircraft simmers community considering that adding a GPS akin to blasphemy . It does not make sense to me. 

We fly these aircraft in the virtual world where there are less and less NDB and, frankly speaking, few of us are able or really fond of using E6B and maps to find their way. 

The recent FI Spitfire and MV Corsair, both aircraft that I have and like a lot, are ludicrous in this regard. No VOR nav, radio, no GPS. What do we do ? We fly with the rudimentary MFS VFR map or alttab LNM  ! PMDG was much smarter with their 6.  

Zangoose and Matchstick,

Initially my first reaction to your responses was "wow, you learn someth8ing new everyday" 

My initial response, however, was in relation to the aircraft of that era, and these aircraft very much preceded the navigation capabilities of the modern era. I do very much acknowledge, that if I had a vintage aircraft that I did not want to mothball or destroy personally, I would probably retrofit a Garmin system too. I can actually navigate, very rudimentally, using the old system but find, obviously, the glass systems much more accurate and easier to use. 

So I stand corrected and appreciate it.

Thanks guys

Tony

 

11 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

How does it hurt you ?

The copyright owners are OK with it,  the buyers look for something of the kind and if they do their homework before buying they know  that VC products are what they are. 

In which capacity do you decide what  developers should or shouldn’t do and what  the buyer should or shouldn’t have  to buy ?

Why should it be freeware when the dev has spent labor and money in his works ? 
 

It doesn't hurt me because I'm not going to buy it.  It hurts the hobby because these are very expensive DLCs for the abysmal quality you get.  The flightsim world is now officially in the world of high-end video games whether the AVSIM crowd believes it or not. FSX/P3D got away with mediocrity because it was more of a niche hobby and the graphics were poor even for the graphic standard at that time.  But now MSFS is attracting people it wouldn't normally attract. 

If I buy a DLC on steam for Assetto Corsa I get a bunch (not 1, like 9) of highly cars that are true to life for 9.99.  I don't get a Lamborghini Aventador with gages from a Huracan and the developer doesn't go oh that's close enough I'll just let them know we used the completely different looking instrument cluster from a Huracan. And I don't get a Porsche with knobs from a Corvette and handling characteristics that are obviously incorrect. I get 9 examples of a true to life highly detailed model that considerable effort went into for 9.99.  That deserves payment.  On the flipside, I can get a Forza model that is converted with sound from another car, that's mostly similar and a wonky dash but in the Car mod world that is free, no one would charge for that. They wouldn't even think of charging for that.  But in the FS community some of these developers would.

What we have in the flightsim world right now is A Lambo Aventador with a low poly converted model, gages from a Ferrari and it drives like a Corvette and the developer is asking 24 USD for it. 

That is my argument.  

Why should it be freeware when the dev has spent labor and money in his works ? 

Simple. Because the quality is garbage. It doesn't use any modern texturing or materials techniques. The plane is not faithfully replicated in appearance on the exterior or in the cockpit.  2 stars on Simmarket right now.

Virtualcol could make this a good plane worth 24 dollars (maybe) but they are taking the easy way out. Convert old model, add asobo gages, rinse, repeat.

I don't care about the aftermarket avionics in the DC-6 (which I do not own or have any interest).  But I do care about an FMC from an A320 in a E175.