48 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Get over it is what I'd say, but aren't you the one that wanted us to prove we weren't being paid by Xplane...

Wut? 😲

8 hours ago, Concodroid said:

Here's an example - and not just in Avsim, it was the subreddit and the FS2020 forums. The clouds were a valid complaint, but people were crying "Asobo downgraded PC for the Xbox crowd!" when they had no proof if it was intentional or not - and it turned out it wasn't!

Proof? So the visual downgrade from SU5 and the release of the sim on XBox on exactly the same day was purely coincidental? Sorry, I don't buy it. Still, if they fix it at the expense of lower FPS I'll be more than happy.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by jarmstro

17 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Proof? So the visual downgrade from SU5 and the release of the sim on XBox on exactly the same day was purely coincidental? Sorry, I don't buy it. Still, if they fix it at the expense of lower FPS I'll be more than happy.

1. The visual degradation is highly exaggerated. 2. You made the claim, you prove it.

14 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Proof? So the visual downgrade from SU5 and the release of the sim on XBox on exactly the same day was purely coincidental? Sorry, I don't buy it. Still, if they fix it at the expense of lower FPS I'll be more than happy.

Fixing the the Visual defects will not necessarily lower FPS - depending on your hardware.

We have simmers with modern hardware and the GPU is being under utilized. VRAM for instance is nowhere near optimal use. If MSFS can better use all of VRAM and load the maximum clouds and scenery objects / trees etc to fill VRAM then the problems will be going away.

10 hours ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Several days of so many others insulting people in threads claiming no lod or texture changes and it was all in our imagination, and here we are...

Nope. That's a straw man right there. People were not simply claiming there were changes; what they were doing was claiming that there were deliberate downgrades in the graphics as a result of making the sim XBox compatible as a policy by MS/Asobo. And that's what most others were saying was not the case.

Deliberately downgrading stuff in terms of capability as a policy, is not the same as what actually occurred, which was going into what I call 'Asobo Mode' i.e. not bothering to properly beta test things, then having not tested things properly, releasing a mandatory patch with errors or missing bits, and this despite the fact that most people could spot these errors of glitches in after about two minutes with the sim.

Of course it's nice that Asobo usually fix things they've @rsed up, but it would be more impressive if they didn't @rse things up in the first place and then having done so, make people wait several days to get a fix for something instead of actually testing stuff out before they make it a mandatory update. This is precisely why having the patches be compulsory is an annoying feature of MSFS and also why Asobo and MS comes in for some criticism, because there is no denying that it is a poor way of going about things.

Personally, I've not had as many problems with MSFS as some people appear to have had and I like MSFS very much indeed, but let's be honest here, there have been some real howlers in terms of the updates going out without having had the most basic checks made to them, updates which paying customers have had no choice but to install and then worse, sometimes have to wait weeks to get a fix for, and it's really just not good enough from a global company to be doing stuff like this on a regular basis.

I'd suggest they fire their QA manager, but it doesn't seem like they actually have one in the first place in order to be able to fire them. 🤣

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Chock

16 minutes ago, Chock said:

People were not simply claiming there were changes; what they were doing was claiming that there were deliberate downgrades in the graphics as a result of making the sim XBox compatible as a policy by MS/Asobo. And that's what most others were saying was not the case.

You can hardly blame people for making an assumption based on what they saw with their own eyes? The re code, the launch of the sim on XBox and the release of SU5 all occurred on the same day. It's hard to believe it was purely coincidence, Whether  it was deliberate or not is beside the point. We are told it was all just bugs. Bugs that it would seem  no one at all had spotted. We will never know.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by jarmstro

1 minute ago, jarmstro said:

You can hardly blame people for making an assumption based on what they saw with their own eyes? The re code, the launch of the sim on XBox and the release of SU5 all occurred on the same day. It's hard to believe it was purely coincidence,

Well, you can if you apply a bit of common sense and extrapolation to determine that:

A) I don't think there's actually been any patch from Asobo for MSFS where they haven't arsed up something, or released the wrong build, or cocked some feature or other up with a clumsy mistake which could have been fixed in a matter of seconds. This is so commonplace that it's practically an in-joke as to what the next patch will break.

B) Asobo said it was absolutely not the case that there was a deliberate downgrade of things.

C) As combinations of gasoline and fires go, generally speaking, there's nothing more whiney and entitled than a bunch of flight simmers, a patch, and a place on the intertron where they can p*** and moan about their first-world problem.

8 minutes ago, Chock said:

Nope. That's a straw man right there. People were not simply claiming there were changes; what they were doing was claiming that there were deliberate downgrades in the graphics as a result of making the sim XBox compatible as a policy by MS/Asobo. And that's what most others were saying was not the case.

Deliberately downgrading stuff in terms of capability as a policy, is not the same as what actually occurred, which was going into what I call 'Asobo Mode' i.e. not bothering to properly beta test things, then having not tested things properly, releasing a mandatory patch with errors or missing bits, and this despite the fact that most people could spot these errors of glitches in after about two minutes with the sim.

Of course it's nice that Asobo usually fix things they've @rsed up, but it would be more impressive if they didn't @rse things up in the first place and then having done so, make people wait several days to get a fix for something instead of actually testing stuff out before they make it a mandatory update. This is precisely why having the patches be compulsory is an annoying feature of MSFS and also why Asobo and MS comes in for some criticism, because there is no denying that it is a poor way of going about things.

Personally, I've not had as many problems with MSFS as some people appear to have had and I like MSFS very much indeed, but let's be honest here, there have been some real howlers in terms of the updates going out without having had the most basic checks made to them, updates which paying customers have had no choice but to install and then worse, sometimes have to wait weeks to get a fix for, and it's really just not good enough from a global company to be doing stuff like this on a regular basis.

I'd suggest they fire their QA manager, but it doesn't seem like they actually have one in the first place in order to be able to fire them. 🤣

100%

I was already critical of their lack of QA and project management from the start but i pretty much stopped getting mad about it because apparently either they are being micromanaged from upper management to stick to the almighty deadline or their project managers are 100% secure in their jobs. Its been a year.. As someone who does this for a living i FULLY EXPECT their to be bugs and hiccups along the development cycle but the minutae of handling client expectations/QA and Communication when word not allowed hits the fan needs lots of work.

 

12 minutes ago, Chock said:

Well, you can if you apply a bit of common sense and extrapolation to determine that:

A) I don't think there's actually been any patch from Asobo for MSFS where they haven't arsed up something, or released the wrong build, or cocked some feature or other up with a clumsy mistake which could have been fixed in a matter of seconds. This is so commonplace that it's practically an in-joke as to what the next patch will break.

B) Asobo said it was absolutely not the case that there was a deliberate downgrade of things.

C) As combinations of gasoline and fires go, generally speaking, there's nothing more whiney and entitled than a bunch of flight simmers, a patch, and a place on the intertron where they can p*** and moan about their first-world problem.

The idea that software firms are uniquely entitled to love and understanding is alien to me. If BT messes up and my broadband slows down I complain.

14 minutes ago, Maxis said:

100%

I was already critical of their lack of QA and project management from the start but i pretty much stopped getting mad about it because apparently either they are being micromanaged from upper management to stick to the almighty deadline or their project managers are 100% secure in their jobs. Its been a year.. As someone who does this for a living i FULLY EXPECT their to be bugs and hiccups along the development cycle but the minutae of handling client expectations/QA and Communication when word not allowed hits the fan needs lots of work.

True. For myself at work, when I do the final walkaround check of an airliner before pushing the thing out, the flight deck crew call me up on the headset and ask me if I've done the checks, the answer they are expecting is not: 'well yeah, sort of mate, I mean, to be honest I was in a bit of a rush by the time I got around to it, so I didn't actually check absolutely everything I should have, but I'm fairly sure it'll be okay. Anyway mate, can you release the parking brake and let's get this sucker in the air shall we?'.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Chock

1 hour ago, jarmstro said:

So the visual downgrade from SU5 and the release of the sim on XBox on exactly the same day was purely coincidental?

Yes. They were bugs, not intentional (outside of the detail culling)

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Tuskin38

@Chock 100% this. We know what people were saying and are still saying about Asobo and what is likely the reality. Their QA process needs a lot of work but their intentions and the overall direction of the sim is pretty clear and positive for me.

8 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

Yes.

And a week later, after an outcry of dissatisfaction,  Asobo finally spots the downgraded visual and prepares a patch which will no doubt reverse some of the fps gains? If some one could please explain how on earth no one at Asobo had noticed that the fps gains were partly at the expense of the visual quality I will be answered and will no longer have cause to think that the re code was to get an XBox to run at 30fps. Bugs? It must have taken quite a few meetings and a lot of head scratching to dream that one up.😀

14 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

And a week later, after an outcry of dissatisfaction,  Asobo finally spots the downgraded visual and prepares a patch which will no doubt reverse some of the fps gains? If some one could please explain how on earth no one at Asobo had noticed that the fps gains were partly at the expense of the visual quality I will be answered and will no longer have cause to think that the re code was to get an XBox to run at 30fps. Bugs? It must have taken quite a few meetings and a lot of head scratching to dream that one up.😀

I guess we'll see, although to be fair, after years of having to spend thousands on a PC just to get FSX to hit double figure FPS when you cranked the sliders to the right, I'm pretty sure most of us were wowed by the fact that MSFS looked as good as it did upon release on even a pretty modest computer. After all, we can all run P3D at 290 FPS if we move all the sliders to the left and load up default aeroplane, but what Asobo have done with MSFS is the polar opposite to that, so who knows? I seem to recall PMDG were reporting that the release of SU5 wasn't cranking as fast at the beta version they'd had hold of, so I'd say all bets are off at this point in regard to what we can expect. It might very well be as similarly amazing as the release version was in terms of wowing us with its FPS.

It's pretty easy to be critical of Asobo when they repeatedly put their foot in it with errors on patches, but it's also easy to forget how much there is to like about MSFS and all the good stuff they've pulled off as well, not least of which is democratising flight sims to the point where you actually don't need a ridiculously expensive PC to be able to enjoy it. They absolutely deserve a lot of credit for having managed that.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Chock

My prediction: there will be diehard truthers who will continue to say that graphics have degraded no matter comes with the hotfix on Friday/Monday. And I will continue to enjoy the sim notwithstanding any game breaking bugs (none so far for me).