7 minutes ago, Chock said:

I guess we'll see, although to be fair, after years of having to spend thousands on a PC just to get FSX to hit double figure FPS when you cranked the sliders to the right, I'm pretty sure most of us were wowed by the fact that MSFS looked as good as it did upon release on even a pretty modest computer. After all, we can all run P3D at 290 FPS if we move all the sliders to the left and load up default aeroplane, but what Asobo have done with MSFS is the polar opposite to that, so who knows? I seem to recall PMDG were reporting that the release of SU5 wasn't cranking as fast at the beta version they'd had hold of, so I'd say all bets are off at this point in regard to what we can expect. It might very well be as similarly amazing as the release version was in terms of wowing us with its FPS.

Amen to that. Oh I dare say that in a months time we will all be happy bunnies again and usual business will return with every one squabbling over the size of the windsocks or some such.

12 minutes ago, Chock said:

I seem to recall PMDG were reporting that the release of SU5 wasn't cranking as fast at the beta version they'd had hold of, so I'd say all bets are off at this point in regard to what we can expect.

At least with the DC-6 that should be the case indeed.

Quote

Asobo indicated that they turned off a particular rendering channel because it needed more time in development to solve a few problems, and it just happens that the DC-6 benefits significantly from this particular channel- hence we saw the loss of performance in the release build. The good news, however, is that they were able to resolve the issues they were experiencing, and this channel is expected to be reactivated in a subsequent update from Asobo- and then you will see a pretty significant boost in performance with the DC-6.

 

1 hour ago, Maxis said:

they are being micromanaged from upper management to stick to the almighty deadline

They had to stick to the July 27th release deadline for X-Box. And for complexity reasons of software development, Sim Update 5 had to be released at the same time as X-Box.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand the July 27th deadline.  Microsoft spent a lot of money advertising July 27th as the release for X-Box.  Moving this date not only costs advertising money, it causes mass confusion to those that saw Microsoft’s advertisements of July 27th and is embarrassing for a large company like Microsoft to change dates after they heavily advertised July 27th.

7 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Microsoft spent a lot of money advertising July 27th as the release for X-Box.

Imagine a business project having a hard deadline. It's as if non of the complainers work in a business with deadlines. That's how you run a business.  

21 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

I’m not sure why people don’t understand the July 27th deadline.

The thing is, they screwed up releases even when there was no deadline. All of the sim updates had major issues.

They admitted that and started the beta program, which I never was a part of, but from what I can glean, it seems they never listen to the beta testers, even back in alpha there were major issues that did not get fixed, but were reported by the testers for months....

Joerg said in one of the Q&As that his mentor told him to focus and not get distracted and that is exactly what he is doing. He is sticking to a plan no matter what. In principal a good management style, but the quality control is missing big time. 

I am certain they knew of most of the issues before SU5, put they stuck to the plan to release on July 27th.

I find it kind of dishonest to pretend they did not know any of the major PC release issues that are present in SU5.

I was hoping SU5 would bring MSFS out of beta, but hey maybe SU6 will do that, but only of the improve their quality control... Here is hoping....

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Ricardo41

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

The thing is, they screwed up releases even when there was no deadline.

There's always a deadline. This isn't X-Plane where the deadline is dependent on Austin's mood. Or P3D where it needs to be good enough for government work. This is a serious investment from MS and a professional company. Not saying MS doesn't mess up (Windows 11 lol), but there's always a deadline.

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

they stuck to the plan to release on July 27th.

That's a deadline that cannot change. The bad press on missing an Xbox launch is FAR greater than anyone in the flight sim community crying for a few weeks.

 

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

major PC release issues

Anecdotally, I have had zero major issues.

3 hours ago, Chock said:

Nope. That's a straw man right there. People were not simply claiming there were changes; what they were doing was claiming that there were deliberate downgrades in the graphics as a result of making the sim XBox compatible as a policy by MS/Asobo. And that's what most others were saying was not the case.

Deliberately downgrading stuff in terms of capability as a policy, is not the same as what actually occurred, which was going into what I call 'Asobo Mode' i.e. not bothering to properly beta test things, then having not tested things properly, releasing a mandatory patch with errors or missing bits, and this despite the fact that most people could spot these errors of glitches in after about two minutes with the sim.

 

It is like the Digital Foundry interview didn’t exist. Like Fuentes never said that they trimmed the PC code like crazy to fit in the S Xbox limited memory.

As they are said to want only one code for the two platforms with minimal differences, it is not a conspiracy delirium to say that SU5 issues are direct consequences of his work, specially (but not only) the CTD. It is a reasonable inference.

These consequences amount to a downgrade for many good faith users and I see many on this forum who are not cranks but good people very unhappy. There were tantrums from some indeed but most of the times it was a deep and legitimate insatisfaction of people who love the product. And it paid off. MS felt the urgency to quench the fire not to damage the Xbox version sales. 

Yes, it was a policy (Fuentes was directed to do the trimming for the box) and yes, it was deliberate. Deliberate does not mean ill will. There was no ill will here from Asobo just that they didn’t foresee the consequences. What was deliberate was the refactoring to release a Xbox version not to botch the PC version ! 

 About the Quality Control or the lack thereof, I am more and more convinced by @RXP when he says that sustaining a rapid rate of updates to keep the interest for the product up is, for MS, more important than cleaning the code at more than 80% at each release. They obviously have a contractual timeline (inference again) and anybody having been in any sort of business knows that renegociating a timeline is a supreme PITA.

1 hour ago, Silicus said:

The thing is, they screwed up releases even when there was no deadline. All of the sim updates had major issues.

Well, I disagree with you there.  There were several updates where there were no major issues.  

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by abrams_tank

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

They had to stick to the July 27th release deadline for X-Box. And for complexity reasons of software development, Sim Update 5 had to be released at the same time as X-Box.

I’m not sure why people don’t understand the July 27th deadline.  Microsoft spent a lot of money advertising July 27th as the release for X-Box.  Moving this date not only costs advertising money, it causes mass confusion to those that saw Microsoft’s advertisements of July 27th and is embarrassing for a large company like Microsoft to change dates after they heavily advertised July 27th.

Um ok .. I dont have an issue with this (The date). What i do have an issue with is how the product was developed to meet the deadline and the processes involved. I set those deadlines at my Job. I also get very involved with the project management side to ensure we dont have charlie foxtrots get released on the day its due. On software and systems that are just a little bit more important than a flightsim.

Im not quite sure what youre trying to explain to me. No one was saying to defer the release. Please go back to my post regarding appropriate QA / setting of client expectations and effective contingency planning if things go sideways. That's my complaint... The date i could care less. unless of course it was unreasonable from the start.. at which the responsibility is on the developer to push back to management hard and say its not on.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Maxis

For future updates and hotfixes. When a bugfixing thread is posted, can we all back away a little with the "It´s s working perfectly for me!" posts? I mean, is perfectly legit to say that is working for you but sometimes it looks like an argument more than an innocent statement. 

Example 1:

1. My FS looks way worse above 10.000 feet , I have CTDs in the Atlas while zooming and temperature is bugged. Screenshots attached.

2. Is working perfectly for me.

Example 2:

1. Everything looks washed out and hazy and autogen is degraded notably. Looks at the pics below...

2. Looks perfectly fine for me.

From my experience, often, those answers are not innocent surprise expressions but unconstructive argumentations and don´t help  pinpointing problems or providing useful solutions. Are more like "it´s just you, don´t bring me back to earth" posts.

Edited August 5, 20214 yr by Aristoteles

1 minute ago, Maxis said:

Um ok .. I dont have an issue with this. What i do have an issue with is how the product was developed to meet the deadline and the processes involved. I set those deadlines at my Job. I also get very involved with the project management side to ensure we dont have charlie foxtrots get released on the day its due. On software and systems that are just a little bit more important than a flightsim.

And I have experience managing complex software systems too.  They obviously underestimated the number of bugs and the work needed to be done for the July 27th release.  Maybe they should have cut features and started beta testing earlier, and also done a longer beta test. Maybe they should have selected a later date than July 27th to release it to the X-Box.

Because of the money wasted on advertising and people learning from that advertising that July 27th was the release date for X-Box, July 27th, for business reasons, was an immovable date.  

11 minutes ago, Maxis said:

. The date i could care less. unless of course it was unreasonable from the start.. at which the responsibility is on the developer to push back to management hard and say its not on.

The developer is Asobo, a small company the owners of which have struck the gold with MFS, the management is one of the largest company in the word. Pushing back might be a little tough 😉 ...

1 minute ago, abrams_tank said:

And I have experience managing complex software systems too.  They obviously underestimated the number of bugs and the work needed to be done for the July 27th release.  Maybe they should have cut features and started beta testing earlier, and also done a longer beta test. Maybe they should have selected a later date than July 27th to release it to the X-Box.

Because of the money wasted on advertising and people learning from that advertising that July 27th was the release date for X-Box, July 27th, for business reasons, was an immovable date.  

Im not trying to have any long drawn out discussion on this issue but frankly the track record in my opinion isn't good. Update after update there are problems that usually get piled on unless of course there is an uproar and after  one year in im tired of it. Something is rotten in their  process for me. If its working for you great. They have had around 1 year to improve the process.

 Im  hearing a lot of talking and promises but im still looking for that process improvement to bear fruit. God bless the third party developers who have to deal with this type of chaos.

Im done talking on the subject.

Just now, Dominique_K said:

The developer is Asobo, a small company the owners of which have struck the gold with MFS, the management is one of the largest company in the word. Pushing back might be a little tough 😉 ...

Fair Ill grant you that one .. But you have to fight the good fight sometimes. I have... and sleep peacefully at night