2 hours ago, Flic1 said:

  Oddly, none of us have seen a clip of the Fenix in action but so many are ready to buy it (including me).  Kind of strange considering it is an unknown developer and something that has been quite elusive...

There are some months old clips that show landings and hydraulics and what else. Not a complete flight, yes, but some hints on to what level it will be.

Getting both without a doubt... Really hoping Fenix go on to make different/new aircrafts or at the very least new airbuses that we don't yet have for MSFS. Not sure if they plan to stick to using ProSim as a base for systems simulation in which case I guess they're confined to only what ProSim supports (from https://prosim-ar.com/ that appears to be the A320 and 737 as of now).

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by lwt1971

12 hours ago, ShawnG said:

they aren't that different.  one is more automated than the other, but the principles are the same.

I realize this may be beyond your scope of sim use, but the 737 and A320 are very different. The entire design philosophy at both manufacturers is different and the principles beyond basic aircraft design are not the same at all. Just saying.

15 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I realize this may be beyond your scope of sim use, but the 737 and A320 are very different. The entire design philosophy at both manufacturers is different and the principles beyond basic aircraft design are not the same at all. Just saying.

It’s not beyond my scope of sim use.  Both planes have engines of roughly the same sort, they have an apu, a bleed air system, an electrical system, packs, hydraulics, INS, gps, radio stacks, an FMS/CDU, an autopilot that shares basic functionality in most modes.  The Airbus is simply designed more around the flyby wire system and computers than the Boeing is, which still maintains a more manual control and operational system.  There are some basic operational gotchas that you would encounter when moving between them, and you would have to get used to the stick/yoke but there is NOTHING about an Airbus that would be totally incomprehensible to anyone who understands how a jetliner works.  Obv real pilots need to know everything inside and out, so they each require separate training, but we’re not talking alien technology here.  Just saying.

 

7 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

It’s not beyond my scope of sim use.  Both planes have engines of roughly the same sort, they have an apu, a bleed air system, an electrical system, packs, hydraulics, INS, gps, radio stacks, an FMS/CDU, an autopilot that shares basic functionality in most modes.  The Airbus is simply designed more around the flyby wire system and computers than the Boeing is, which still maintains a more manual control and operational system.  There are some basic operational gotchas that you would encounter when moving between them, and you would have to get used to the stick/yoke but there is NOTHING about an Airbus that would be totally incomprehensible to anyone who understands how a jetliner works.  Obv real pilots need to know everything inside and out, so they each require separate training, but we’re not talking alien technology here.  Just saying.

I may be misinterpreting this since it's just text on the internet, in which case I take back the following. But did you really think that passive-aggressive 'Just saying' at the end alluding to my own post was necessary? I was merely saying there are huge differences in design and philosophy - beyond basic aircraft design like an airplane having engines, an apu and hydraulics... which was very obvious in my reply so I don't know if you just didn't read that properly or flat out decided to ignore it.

The whole design and safety philosophy at Airbus and Boeing are fundamentally different, the most prominent one being the role that the pilot plays. Automation overrides pilot input (Airbus) vs. pilot overrides automation (Boeing) has vastly different consequences - which you won't notice much during everyday ops, which is why I said this is probably beyond the scope of your - and my - sim use. Just thought it would be good to point out there are in fact fundamental differences between the two for anyone interested beyond A to B flying in the sim...

6 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I may be misinterpreting this since it's just text on the internet, in which case I take back the following. But did you really think that passive-aggressive 'Just saying' at the end alluding to my own post was necessary? I was merely saying there are huge differences in design and philosophy - beyond basic aircraft design like an airplane having engines, an apu and hydraulics... which was very obvious in my reply so I don't know if you just didn't read that properly or flat out decided to ignore it.

The whole design and safety philosophy at Airbus and Boeing are fundamentally different, the most prominent one being the role that the pilot plays. Automation overrides pilot input (Airbus) vs. pilot overrides automation (Boeing) has vastly different consequences - which you won't notice much during everyday ops, which is why I said this is probably beyond the scope of your - and my - sim use. Just thought it would be good to point out there are in fact fundamental differences between the two for anyone interested beyond A to B flying in the sim...

If you realize how condescending your post came off to me, then you would realize that yes, I meant the passive aggressive ‘just saying’ at the end of my post, just like I believe, you meant every bit of it when you typed it on yours.

but the original post of mine wasn’t to you, and I was addressing another poster who seemed to think it was unlikely that anyone could wrap their head around two different sim planes.  I find that idea ridiculous, no matter how in depth you like to get.  And my point stands.  I think most on this forum either fully or partially understand that Airbus is a bit different in how they think of things, and since this community has spent a number of years cultivating preferences, those differences tend to be exaggerated by fans of one or the other.  I do not believe there is a single Boeing pilot that wouldn’t be able to comprehend the Airbus “way” and vice/versa.  (After a small adjustment period and training, of course). Different, yes. A different species altogether? no.

9 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

If you realize how condescending your post came off to me, then you would realize that yes, I meant the passive aggressive ‘just saying’ at the end of my post, just like I believe, you meant every bit of it when you typed it on yours.

but the original post of mine wasn’t to you, and I was addressing another poster who seemed to think it was unlikely that anyone could wrap their head around two different sim planes.  I find that idea ridiculous, no matter how in depth you like to get.  And my point stands.  I think most on this forum either fully or partially understand that Airbus is a bit different in how they think of things, and since this community has spent a number of years cultivating preferences, those differences tend to be exaggerated by fans of one or the other.  I do not believe there is a single Boeing pilot that wouldn’t be able to comprehend the Airbus “way” and vice/versa.  (After a small adjustment period and training, of course). Different, yes. A different species altogether? no.

I personally know a real life pilot who transitioned from the 737 to the 747 and later qualified on the bus, he flew the 3 types for many years (not concurrently). Happens a lot actually and a lot of pilots hold type ratings for both Boeing and Airbus aircrafts.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by Carlosmmcd

Both honestly as an airline pilot who's looking to make the jump to an airline that operates both. Already having familiarity with whichever  jet I get assigned cockpit and systems won't hurt and having the option to use the sim to practice flows and setting up the FMC/MCDU during training really helped on my first type raiting as I was able to repeat the days lessons in my hotel room. Plus I can deduct them on my taxes, I'd much rather give the devs my money than the government.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by z06z33

18 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

If you realize how condescending your post came off to me, then you would realize that yes, I meant the passive aggressive ‘just saying’ at the end of my post, just like I believe, you meant every bit of it when you typed it on yours.

but the original post of mine wasn’t to you, and I was addressing another poster who seemed to think it was unlikely that anyone could wrap their head around two different sim planes.  I find that idea ridiculous, no matter how in depth you like to get.  And my point stands.  I think most on this forum either fully or partially understand that Airbus is a bit different in how they think of things, and since this community has spent a number of years cultivating preferences, those differences tend to be exaggerated by fans of one or the other.  I do not believe there is a single Boeing pilot that wouldn’t be able to comprehend the Airbus “way” and vice/versa.  (After a small adjustment period and training, of course). Different, yes. A different species altogether? no.

Well, I didn't realize you thought my post was condescending, which wasn't my intention. I was just pointing out that philosophy and design are very different beyond the basics of everyday ops and by 'just saying' I wanted to make clear I wasn't trying to be a smarta.s.s, but rather just briefly toss that into the conversation for completeness's sake. I know the phrase as a way to let the other one know there's no hostile intent.

We should be all good then.

18 hours ago, Stearmandriver said:

Yeah see the FBW and Fenix busses, it makes sense to me that those are competitors... they're the same plane.  Can't see a bus and 73 being considered competitors though...

FBW is like 1% of the Fenix.

Nothing against Fenix, I'm just not much of an Airbus person.  That's nothing against Airbus, either.   Somewhere down the road, I might purchase it.

Rich Boll

3 hours ago, ShawnG said:

It’s not beyond my scope of sim use.  Both planes have engines of roughly the same sort ...

Well yes, if you put it like this. The DA20 that I fly has two wings, so I guess that qualifies me as a 737 pilot. 😛

737 for sure.

3 hours ago, joona_ said:

FBW is like 1% of the Fenix.

FBW is providing an excellent free product to everyone, is this comment really necessary?

Why would anyone bring up FBW in this thread anyways, they are freeware. Believe or not Fenix, PMDG, MaddogX, BAE146, and when INIbuilds bring their A310 will be competing with each other for the consumer dollar not the FBW which is an open source project. Me personally will get the Fenix over the PMDG 700, I will wait for the 800. I'm putting FBW on the back burner for while, don't like some of the attitudes over there in their discord.

Edited May 8, 20224 yr by jbdbow1970