If iniBuilds will focus on MSFS, I would prefer they would bring their EGLL to speed. I still have it shelved and use the MSFS Deluxe version. No way to take off there under VR.

Kind regards, Michael

7 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Let's see how long they like staying poor.

This reminds me of FSLabs.  FSLabs did not want to enter the MSFS market.  They wanted to stay with P3D forever.  They announced their Concorde in the fall of 2020 for P3D, after MSFS had been released and knowing upon MSFS's release, a chunk of the P3D market had moved to MSFS.

Market conditions forced FSLabs to reconsider MSFS.  And now, FSLabs appears to be prioritizing MSFS more.

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

6 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Let's see how long they like staying poor.

With XP12 around the corner, I doubt they are too worried - i can't wait to get my hands on the new version.

5 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

i can't wait to get my hands on the new version.

You, me, and how many others - that's the question.  XP was a niche player in the heyday of FSX and only experienced its current explosion in numbers (and developers) when MS abandoned flight simulation.  While I firmly believe that X-plane is technically a superior product to anything MS has produced to date, I don't think it has the mass appeal that is driving developers to the numbers (and $$$) of MSFS. 

19 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Let's see how long they like staying poor.

Yeah, a development overtaken by events in some ways.

 I wonder what sales of it have been like for them?

34 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

With XP12 around the corner, I doubt they are too worried - i can't wait to get my hands on the new version.

I'll say this, and it's not really directed at Hotstart.  A lot of high fidelity, "study level" planes, requires years of development and planning ahead.  Look at FSLabs with their Concorde for P3D.  They announced it in the fall of 2020 for P3D.  By the time they announced their Concorde for P3D, you can assume they had also been developing the Concorde for P3D for some time.  But the market can collapse and change faster than a 3rd party developer can react in time.

So 3rd party developers that embark on multi year long projects, need to forecast what the market looks like several years from now, when their product is released.  Not properly forecasting the market like FSLabs can lead to disaster and a huge loss in revenue/profit.  In fact, unless FSLabs has other income from military/commercial contracts, or unless FSLabs has a stockpile of cash available (or some rich backer that can supply them with cash), they are not in a good spot, if they are relying on revenue from the Concorde sales in P3D to replenish their cash reserves.

So for any 3rd party developer that embarks on a multi year long project, forecasting what the market looks like several years down the road is very, very important.  So no, I don't agree with you on your statement that a 3rd party developer has nothing to worry about.  You don't know what the market will look like several years from now, and if the market implodes in the platform that you spent years developing a product for, your company can lose a lot of money.

 

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

Well, I have been buying their offers at promotional prices, for XP11, which I expect to be able to use in XP12.

I bought the A300 Beluga and last weekend the A310 which I was no even able to install yet - rather wait for the imminent release of X-Plane 12.

I believe they are just waiting for Xp12 to get released, and stable. The market will also lead their decisions, and I am sure XP12 will be a success.

The latest developments, specially the recent presentation of what is coming flight model and weather model wise, make XP12 a really ingenious and promising platform which I believe developers of complex / detailed aircraft will want to profit from.

I initially thought the same too when they made their first promotional sale, but my mind has changed , and I can even believe they will keep trying to sell for MFS because it's surely a much easier market to explore and gain $$ from, BUT! when it comes to detailed flight dynamics and ease of systems simulation I think XP12 will still be the preferred platform for any serious developer.

I strongly believe that users less game / scenery realism-oriented (*) and more concerned about complex aircraft and systems, and a rather opened to 3pd parties platform allowing for satellite applications to easily couple with the core sim in all fronts, will still use X-Plane for their Base of Operations.

My use of MFS is now pretty much restricted to what it does like no other civil flightsim - Scenery browsing !  I don't think that in terms of similitude to RW VFR details XP12 will be able to compete with MFS, at least from it's vanilla install, and for soaring task planning I find MFS Unique, although I have to close my eyes to the lousy flight dynamics that make even the best glider offers really useless in terms of simulating soaring flight from a flight dynamics POV! For --> FLIGHT <-- simulation I will most surely load XP12 when willing to "feel like being there", and I look fwd to be able to use the Inibuilds "On the Line" series in XP12 too !

(*) These days I include myself in the more game-oriented / scenery-realism-oriented group, unless I am willing to play being an airline pilot, my biggest professional frustration in life, because that was my dream since young kid... But 90% I load the sim and play for a while, or then plan or debrief a RW glider task. I seldom find the patience / available time to play airlines flying, and I confess modern ATC and some navigation systems / procedures are a bit difficult for me to learn and memorize 😕

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by jcomm

Just now, lzamm said:

You, me, and how many others - that's the question.  XP was a niche player in the heyday of FSX and only experienced its current explosion in numbers (and developers) when MS abandoned flight simulation.  While I firmly believe that X-plane is technically a superior product to anything MS has produced to date, I don't think it has the mass appeal that is driving developers to the numbers (and $$$) of MSFS. 

It's not that easy. Recreating the CL650 for MSFS would be something that takes years, costs a lot of money and will - as it is right now - not even be able to port over half of what the CL650 brings to the table (that 3d office, the in-game overlay buttons to like tell the guy to remove the chocks, the live-menus where you can monitor every single part of the aircraft [there are no custom menus allowed in MSFS at the moment, which is what GSX is struggling with, too etc.), and in turn they'd not be able to sell on the XBOX, which already means they lost a substantial part of the customer base from the beginning.
This has to be repaid by sales in MSFS, and to be honest when they'd be ready in like 2024 at the earliest, the market might already be saturated by business aircraft. All of this could very well mean that staying on XPL is more profitable. But we'll see.

4 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

It's not that easy. Recreating the CL650 for MSFS would be something that takes years, costs a lot of money and will - as it is right now - not even be able to port over half of what the CL650 brings to the table (that 3d office, the in-game overlay buttons to like tell the guy to remove the chocks, the live-menus where you can monitor every single part of the aircraft [there are no custom menus allowed in MSFS at the moment, which is what GSX is struggling with, too etc.), and in turn they'd not be able to sell on the XBOX, which already means they lost a substantial part of the customer base from the beginning.
This has to be repaid by sales in MSFS, and to be honest when they'd be ready in like 2024 at the earliest, the market might already be saturated by business aircraft. All of this could very well mean that staying on XPL is more profitable. But we'll see.

There are workarounds for some of these (e.g. using an EFB), or straight up removing features like the FBO. It's still a tall order, but might be in HotStart's best interest even if they couldn't get on the Market Place. 

2 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Recreating the CL650 for MSFS....

I'm not suggesting that would happen (beautiful aircraft, though I find tacking an RPG onto it rather ... tacky).  Similarly I don't see ToLiss bringing their Airbuses to a platform that already has a surfeit of them and more in the pipeline.  But it certainly be a consideration going forward on future projects, especially as I believe that (unfortunately) X-plane user numbers will dwindle towards what they were in the FSX era, and will not support the varied third-party ecosystem it has at present.

29 minutes ago, jcomm said:

The latest developments, specially the recent presentation of what is coming flight model and weather model wise, make XP12 a really ingenious and promising platform which I believe developers of complex / detailed aircraft will want to profit from.

Not that impressive if I'm being honest and it's not like MSFS is sitting still. XP-12 still looks last gen and while its nice that they are finally implementing volumetric clouds.....they look really low rez 😞

29 minutes ago, jcomm said:

BUT! when it comes to detailed flight dynamics and ease of systems simulation I think XP12 will still be the preferred platform for any serious developer.

Yet Fenix, as a brand new dev which has definitely shown its seriousness, chose MSFS over XP

 

29 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Users less game-oriented and more concerned about complex aircraft and systems, and a rather opened to 3pd parties platform allowing for satellite applications to easily couple with the core sim in all fronts will still use X-Plane for their Base of Operations.

But how many of them will be enough to sustain a dev on a dwindling platform when the gravy train is running away on the other one?

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by Krakin

1 hour ago, Krakin said:

Yet Fenix, as a brand new dev which has definitely shown its seriousness, chose MSFS over XP

 

Well, I believe that has more to do with the ProSIM choice, which uses P3D as it's "World & Visuals" generator too, and it's a lot closer to the MS-FS way of doing it than having to create an X-Plane bridge.

But I have said it also at the XP forums here at AVSIM - it would be great if one day we could have a XP12 - MFS bridge allowing to use the stuff each does better :  Flight Dynamics and Systems modelling ( as well as most probably Weather too ) in XP12 and MFS for the World visuals.

It exists for ELITE IFT and Aerowinx PSX, both being able to use MFS as a "Scenery Generator".

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by jcomm

44 minutes ago, jcomm said:

Well, I have been buying their offers at promotional prices, for XP11, which I expect to be able to use in XP12.

I bought the A300 Beluga and last weekend the A310 which I was no even able to install yet - rather wait for the imminent release of X-Plane 12.

I believe they are just waiting for Xp12 to get released, and stable. The market will also lead their decisions, and I am sure XP12 will be a success.

The latest developments, specially the recent presentation of what is coming flight model and weather model wise, make XP12 a really ingenious and promising platform which I believe developers of complex / detailed aircraft will want to profit from.

I initially thought the same too when they made their first promotional sale, but my mind has changed , and I can even believe they will keep trying to sell for MFS because it's surely a much easier market to explore and gain $$ from, BUT! when it comes to detailed flight dynamics and ease of systems simulation I think XP12 will still be the preferred platform for any serious developer.

I strongly believe that users less game / scenery realism-oriented and more concerned about complex aircraft and systems, and a rather opened to 3pd parties platform allowing for satellite applications to easily couple with the core sim in all fronts, will still use X-Plane for their Base of Operations.

My use of MFS is now pretty much restricted to what it does like no other civil flightsim - Scenery browsing !  I don't think that in terms of similitude to RW VFR details XP12 will be able to compete with MFS, at least from it's vanilla install, and for soaring task planning I find MFS Unique, although I have to close my eyes to the lousy flight dynamics that make even the best glider offers really useless in terms of simulating soaring flight from a flight dynamics POV! For --> FLIGHT <-- simulation I will most surely load XP12 when willing to "feel like being there", and I look fwd to be able to use the Inibuilds "On the Line" series in XP12 too !

DON'T !! You have the creme de la creme of the MSFS whippers in here 😆.

52 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I think XP12 will still be the preferred platform for any serious developer.

Hey jcomm, it's about where the money is for 3rd party developers.  Since this topic is about iniBuilds, I would like to circle back to iniBuilds.  iniBuilds is forecasting that they can make a lot of money in MSFS, so that's why it looks like iniBuilds is increasingly prioritizing MSFS.

I'm sure FSLabs is a very serious developer too. And it didn't look like FSLabs really wanted to jump onto the MSFS bandwagon. But FSLabs had their hands forced, by the market.  These companies, they got to pay their staff, their rent, their bills, food, etc. So they go where the money is.  

iniBuilds is playing it smart.  FSLabs, not so much.

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, jcomm said:

Well, I have been buying their offers at promotional prices, for XP11, which I expect to be able to use in XP12.

Optimistic ... they said on their forum "There is no comments we have on XP12. You are buying an addon for XP11. "

https://forum.inibuilds.com/topic/4658-x-plane-12-upgrade-path/