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Paul_Yorks

First look PMDG 737 update

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5 minutes ago, jbdbow1970 said:

I guess you missed my point. PMDG is not the "Big Dogs anymore". believe or  not folks. 

I don't know if he missed your point, but you certainly missed his humour.   (I thought the comment was hilarious).

I appreciate Brit humour doesn't always travel over the pond so well.   Luckily for me I have just over 25 years each on both sides of the pond, so I "get" dry Brit humour and also get to laugh at my North American brethren "just not getting it".  😁

Edited by JYW
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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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48 minutes ago, DavidP said:

You'll have to get used to it. This is AVSIM.

And there’s at least one „PMDG bad“ thread every. Single. Day.

One of the saddest communities I ever experienced in any forum. Even Reddit is better. Or the open lobby on a Russian CS server.  

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12 minutes ago, MySound said:

And there’s at least one „PMDG bad“ thread every. Single. Day.

One of the saddest communities I ever experienced in any forum. Even Reddit is better. Or the open lobby on a Russian CS server.  

.....yet here you are, torturing yourself 😁

I mean, I do get what you're saying - there is a lot of negativity sometimes. But I don't think it's quite as bad as some make out.   With efficient use of the ignore user function, and being selective with the threads you open, AVSIM can be a very enjoyable, useful platform for (allegedly) like-minded simmers.

The biggest problem as I see it, is some people are very insecure, and require validation for their personal buying decisions. 

Some people use a very simplistic and problematic formula, when posting their views:-

I bought and enjoy Product A and therefore I must defend Product A at all costs, where others bought and enjoy Product B.

Fenix and PMDG are good examples of the above - insert either brand in either place!

......in other words, common-or-garden tribalism.  "I'm in this club, and I'm sticking with my people, and those who aren't with me are against me!".

Edited by JYW
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Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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27 minutes ago, MySound said:

Even Reddit is better.

You sure about that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/flightsim/comments/vekd10/anybody_else_find_this_subreddit_overly_negative/

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1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

I've never used their products before than on MSFS. And I don't think they have been "dishonest"... We don't need to be "enamored" to see reality for what it is... they have been very upfront about what's exactly coming and when and what's missing. If they were badly off on release timeline estimates that's not dishonesty surely. If they complained too much about Asobo either due to missing features or them not knowing stuff, I also don't think that's intentional dishonesty, but YMMV.

As to the personal issues some seem to have with RSR, and their forum moderation, and them taking down of cockpit texture mods etc, well big meh... Even if I got into such tussles on their forums with them I wouldn't let it personally impact me to the point where I need to keep dumping on PMDG on every PMDG related thread everywhere 🙂

You might think they have earned this ill will from corners of forums and reddit land, and that's fair... but what they are really earning is big revenue, and no amount of venting and gnashing of teeth by those who're butthurt by PMDG is going make an impact on that.

You spoke like the speaker of the PMDG! You should praise them at their forum not here to combat criticisms. Criticisms make things improve not the praising words!

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44 minutes ago, MySound said:

And there’s at least one „PMDG bad“ thread every. Single. Day.

One of the saddest communities I ever experienced in any forum. Even Reddit is better. Or the open lobby on a Russian CS server.  

Apparently you have not experienced many forums, or you enjoy living in a fantasy world everything suppose to be good by your standard!

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1 hour ago, ShawnG said:

well, you said it yourself.  this is your first pmdg experience.  It takes a minimum of buying the same product at least twice, and paying progressively more for it, while seeing the previous reasons for the higher prices discarded, and new ones invented, before you really get it.  and then promises made and not kept, or rolled into the next paid package (not upgrade, since they don't do those)  

And of course you really haven't lived until you've had them insert code in their installer to prevent installation into a functionally identical sim, and then charge you a 140 percent premium to remove that installer code for the exact same aircraft code you already bought for the other functionally identical sim.

But if you want a 737 they are the only game in town, after scaring off all competitors by falsely claiming the 737 for msfs was nearly ready to go 2 years ago, while then blaming the sim developer for the fact that it wasn't.  fun times.


So even if I paid for and used their 737 in P3D, and they brought it for MSFS as a first release with exact same everything, even the 3d-modelling/textures at P3D quality, I *still* would want it and be willing to pay their new asking price of $65/70 due to one crucial thing: I get to fly a 737 of that quality *in MSFS* 🙂 The fact they brought it initially with at least the visuals being better than the P3D equivalent, and also releasing the new EFB, LNAV 2.0, further modelling/texture improvements, etc later for free, would be a bonus. And I can safely say that even while enjoying the Fenix, who had different paths thru the dev process and SDK.

One day if/when another sim comes along that takes the flight sim community by storm and becomes the dominant one and PMDG sidelines its focus on MSFS, well I'll have to suck it up and take it (if I still wanted to remain on MSFS), since that's the nature of the business... no 3rd party dev owes loyalty to any sim platform.  What they promise now for MSFS and the coming 777, 747, if a different sim came along later in 2022 and PMDG dropped their plans for that and said well now their focus is on that sim, I'm not gonna run around with my hair on fire wanting ill will on PMDG (curiously but expectedly what some XP fans are doing now with iniBuilds lol)

Competitors are scared off precisely due to what the actual PMDG products are all about... i.e. so good there is no point trying to go up against them unless it's a different Boeing model, or they provide something above and beyond PMDG that it makes sense to invest the dev resources. If such theoretical competitors were scared off by what PMDG said like you say, then that speaks more to those competitors' confidence level in themselves ... any company can state whatever they want, it's up to their competitors to be dictated by those statements or not.  Just basic business.

I don't think PMDG needs Boeing competitors to light any needed fires under its butt.. The likes of Fenix and other new devs I believe are kind of doing that.

 

Edited by lwt1971
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Len
1980s: Sublogic FS II on C64 ---> 1990s: Flight Unlimited I/II, MSFS 95/98 ---> 2000s/2010s: FS/X, P3D, XP ---> 2020+: MSFS
Current system: i9 13900K, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5 4800 RAM, 4TB NVMe SSD

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40 minutes ago, nicboyGS said:

You spoke like the speaker of the PMDG! You should praise them at their forum not here to combat criticisms. Criticisms make things improve not the praising words!


Aww, so not criticizing them and not whining, and stating facts is therefore "praise"... how very astute of you. Perhaps not reading about PMDG for a bit might lessen the rage lol.

Edited by lwt1971
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Len
1980s: Sublogic FS II on C64 ---> 1990s: Flight Unlimited I/II, MSFS 95/98 ---> 2000s/2010s: FS/X, P3D, XP ---> 2020+: MSFS
Current system: i9 13900K, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5 4800 RAM, 4TB NVMe SSD

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The simulation is of a 737 NG. The plane hasn't changed. What did people expect to be different? It sounds like they are actually more frustrated with Boeing for not updating the 737 NG cockpit with 'cool' modern stuff. I'm guessing the upcoming PMDG 777 and 747 cockpits will look a lot like their FSX/P3D counterparts. As they are, after all, the same cockpits.

People that have have never flown a 737 say they are parking it in the hanger until the circuit breakers work, OK. Meanwhile, actual 737 pilots are flying the plane and enjoying it despite some issues that being worked on like LNAV. Most people didn't even know there was an LNAV issue until actual 737 pilots pointed it out and explained what the issues are. Makes for interesting reading though. You can make your life as enjoyable or miserable as you wish to.

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2 hours ago, ShawnG said:

And of course you really haven't lived until you've had them insert code in their installer to prevent installation into a functionally identical sim, and then charge you a 140 percent premium to remove that installer code for the exact same aircraft code you already bought for the other functionally identical sim.

I suspect you're talking about going from FSX to P3D? It's my understanding that PMDG installers never gave you an option where to install but scan the registry for the installation path of the simulator. Unless one alters the registry manually the product won't install anywhere other than the target simulator's path. Did PMDG actively modify installers later on to prevent installation into P3D beyond the installers not recognizing it due to their original design? By original design the installers would already be incompatible with any other simulator.

Edited by threegreen

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30 minutes ago, rjquick said:

The simulation is of a 737 NG. The plane hasn't changed. What did people expect to be different?

This is a strange argument that keeps being repeated here. Or did I miss the part where PMDG managed to replicate the plane 100% accurate to real world both on the visual and systems department and leaving nothing to be improved?

Edited by Kopteeni
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I could understand all the uproar had they not honored the original offer of a future credit when purchasing the NGXu.  As it is they honored the credit for the product I purchased on another platform towards the 737 in MSFS. 

So from my perspective they honored the obligation they originally promised.

I can't understand the fuss. 

Edited by psolk
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Have a Wonderful Day

-Paul Solk

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Just now, psolk said:

I could understand all the uproar had the not honored the original off of a future credit when purchasing the NGXu.  As it is they honored the credit for the product I purchased on another platform towards the 737 in MSFS. 

So from my perspective they honored the obligation they originally promised.

I can't understand the fuss. 

they have also been completely forthcoming about what limitations the product would have at release (no EFB, potential bugs, etc) and their plan for updates to include more features, fixes, etc. furthermore, they have (so far) stayed true to their word on all of that.

the amount of fuss over it all is insane to me. and that's not to say i think PMDG is some perfect god-sent developer, lol - i've had my issues with them personally, and even though i never had much interest in it, the way they abandoned their DC-6 for X-Plane and left it behind was really disappointing to see (even if it was because it was a dismal business failure in terms of sales.) but i think their 737 launch has been very solid and it's still the best performing and most 'solid' commercial aircraft addon we have at the moment - the Fenix A320 is great as well, but definitely more rough around the edges, has a much bigger performance impact, and the developer has been somewhat silent on issues over the past few weeks and support, in my experience, has been lackluster. (i'm not "hating" on Fenix, either; i'm just bringing up some fair points as many seem to treat Fenix like they have created some heretofore completely unheard of level of perfection and customer service, which simply isn't true.)

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4 minutes ago, threegreen said:

I suspect you're talking about going from FSX to P3D? It's my understanding that PMDG installers never gave you an option where to install but scan the registry for the installation path of the simulator. Unless one alters the registry manually the product won't install anywhere other than the target simulator's path. Did PMDG actively modify installers to prevent installation into P3D beyond the installers not recognizing it due to their original design?

Yes. They altered their installer so that Took several steps to avoid installing in p3d 32 bit.  Most installers at the time would pull up the fsx directory from the registry but would be able to be overridden manually.  Some didn’t even take that step.  But that’s actually the minor point of the problem.  Pmdg did that to sell a 99 dollar addon for 140 dollars that was essentially unmodified.  Other devs would charge an upgrade, which was fair.

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4 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Yes. They altered their installer so that Took several steps to avoid installing in p3d 32 bit.  Most installers at the time would pull up the fsx directory from the registry but would be able to be overridden manually.  Some didn’t even take that step.  But that’s actually the minor point of the problem.  Pmdg did that to sell a 99 dollar addon for 140 dollars that was essentially unmodified.  Other devs would charge an upgrade, which was fair.

Nevermind this post, I can't read...

Edited by threegreen

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