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Paul_Yorks

First look PMDG 737 update

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49 minutes ago, rjquick said:

The simulation is of a 737 NG. The plane hasn't changed. What did people expect to be different? It sounds like they are actually more frustrated with Boeing for not updating the 737 NG cockpit with 'cool' modern stuff. I'm guessing the upcoming PMDG 777 and 747 cockpits will look a lot like their FSX/P3D counterparts. As they are, after all, the same cockpits.

People that have have never flown a 737 say they are parking it in the hanger until the circuit breakers work, OK. Meanwhile, actual 737 pilots are flying the plane and enjoying it despite some issues that being worked on like LNAV. Most people didn't even know there was an LNAV issue until actual 737 pilots pointed it out and explained what the issues are. Makes for interesting reading though. You can make your life as enjoyable or miserable as you wish to.

Excellent post and right on point

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3 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

Yes. They altered their installer so that Took several steps to avoid installing in p3d 32 bit.  Most installers at the time would pull up the fsx directory from the registry but would be able to be overridden manually.  Some didn’t even take that step.  But that’s actually the minor point of the problem.  Pmdg did that to sell a 99 dollar addon for 140 dollars that was essentially unmodified.  Other devs would charge an upgrade, which was fair.

honestly, the entire P3D era is best left forgotten. the "it's not for entertainment, only for professionals(tm)" angle, which most of the well-established developers (including PMDG) took full advantage of, was a cringe-worthy tactic that i'm extremely happy we're finally able to leave behind.

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1 minute ago, threegreen said:

So this was the transition from 32 bit to 64 bit P3D? Wasn't the price increase from FSX to P3D?

No this was from fsx to 32 bit p3d.  They didn’t pull this stunt again, until p3dv4-p3d v5. Which was slightly different, and I had checked out of p3d by then.

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1 minute ago, molleh said:

honestly, the entire P3D era is best left forgotten. the "it's not for entertainment, only for professionals(tm)" angle, which most of the well-established developers (including PMDG) took full advantage of, was a cringe-worthy tactic that i'm extremely happy we're finally able to leave behind.

I haven’t forgotten.  And I won’t.

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10 minutes ago, ShawnG said:

No this was from fsx to 32 bit p3d.  They didn’t pull this stunt again, until p3dv4-p3d v5. Which was slightly different, and I had checked out of p3d by then.

Yeah I just realized I misread your post.

However, I do know you can easily install their aircraft into P3Dv5 even with the v4 installers by editing the registry and they even said themselves it's possible. They also didn't charge anything as far as I remember.

Edited by threegreen

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5 hours ago, RichieFly said:

Yes. It's very tiresome to always and without fail see the usual suspects doing their moral outrage act. -sigh- Would be nice to read about something/anything about PMDG without this hysteria.

I suspect after seeing Fenix EFB they've decided to try to match what Fenix has accomplished. At least that's my guess.

don't  worry  wait  till the next update of  pmdg thread the usual suspects  will again derail the  thread

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4 hours ago, jpe828 said:

I don't really get the hate.

I think is because we are missing innovations from PMDG with that wow effect. They actually used to be like that back in FSX and FS9 days.

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2 hours ago, MySound said:

Even Reddit is better.

I'm sorry, but this is kind of laughable. They're over there straight slaughtering PMDG. They're making almost memes daily about them and how "bad" they are. 

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12 minutes ago, omarsmak30 said:

I think is because we are missing innovations from PMDG with that wow effect. They actually used to be like that back in FSX and FS9 days.

That's probably the reason why PMDG-newcomers that bought their first PMDG plane ever are having such a hard time to understand criticism - they are "wowed", because the 737 is an excellent products. It's just that it's already been like that more than 10 years ago, and not much has changed or improved (except for visuals of course) since back then, even though some people paid three or four times for it already. And there is a lot of room for improvement (LNAV, failures, textures, global integration etc.) after ten years.
It's still a high quality product I'd pay for over and over again, but it's much less than one can expect for the 3rd or 4th iteration and after more than 10 years.

That's probably the reason why there's two groups in here, one that are wowed and cannot understand any criticism, and one that needs actual PROGRESS to be wowed again. I'm part of the second group, but I can understand the first group. Both are factually right within their perspective, but I'd appreciate the first group to be a bit more aware of their "newness" and how their perspective is influenced by that.

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21 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

That's probably the reason why PMDG-newcomers that bought their first PMDG plane ever are having such a hard time to understand criticism - they are "wowed", because the 737 is an excellent products. It's just that it's already been like that more than 10 years ago, and not much has changed or improved (except for visuals of course) since back then, even though some people paid three or four times for it already. And there is a lot of room for improvement (LNAV, failures, textures, global integration etc.) after ten years.
It's still a high quality product I'd pay for over and over again, but it's much less than one can expect for the 3rd or 4th iteration and after more than 10 years.

That's probably the reason why there's two groups in here, one that are wowed and cannot understand any criticism, and one that needs actual PROGRESS to be wowed again. I'm part of the second group, but I can understand the first group. Both are factually right within their perspective, but I'd appreciate the first group to be a bit more aware of their "newness" and how their perspective is influenced by that.

So, you want PMDG to add something to the 737 NG that doesn't actually exist in the real plane for a 'wow' effect? What do you expect them to add? The cockpit is already customizable with the many different options available for the 737.

Are there more options in the 737 NG cockpit that people know about that PMDG is holding back on? If so, I haven't heard the 737 real world pilots mentioning them. IDK, maybe there is. Some examples would be helpful.

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35 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

it's much less than one can expect for the 3rd or 4th iteration and after more than 10 years.

5th 😉

You're not wrong. For anyone who's new or revisiting the 737 after a long absence from flight simming, their 737 for MSFS would appear excellent.

For those who have been with PMDG for the journey from FS9, it's very hard to watch a team that was so groundbreaking at the start, become complacent with their offerings and give deteriorating levels of customer service over that same period.

  

4 minutes ago, rjquick said:

737 NG cockpit that people know about that PMDG is holding back on?

- RF legs. Community has been asking for that for a *very* long time.
- Circuit breakers that actually do something.
- Some modelling of weather effects on the exterior.
- Some exterior visual damage for minor events (a note on the FMC to say tires have blown or a tailstrike recorded is not enough in 2022 in what should be a very mature product).
 

Edited by F737MAX
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I don't post here at Avsim anymore but I've been here a looooong time. Long enough that I unofficially created the Avsim logo when Avsim adopted a graphic I had in one of my aircraft reviews - I don't remember how long ago. Back then the forums were much more light hearted and people like Ferd Berful would keep us laughing for days (see if you can find the infamous "my hovercraft is full of eels post").  With that said, I decided to post because of all this shade being cast on RJR.

It appears that RJR has become the new Peter Tishma - and quite frankly if you DON'T know who Peter Tishma is then you really haven't earned your stripes to truly understand who RJR is just yet either. But those of you who have been around know that RJR's reputation started a turn to the south when he announced that PMDG (an American company) would charge for its products in British Pounds in an attempt to extract more money from its customers. Thankfully that's not allowed. You want to talk about uproar?

Now some are angry because they've paid PMDG for essentially the same base code since FS 2004. Heck if ya know where to look you can see elements from that same model now in FS 2020. Some are angry because RJR's arrogance is often on full display on his forums, and yes, he is very much just a keyboard bully. Definitely not something I would recommend for a company's CEO, but PMDG is not my company to run.

Okay now that I've pointed out some of RJR faults, please feel free to raise your hand if YOU are without fault. God knows I've got tons of my own but I find that I've extracted much more enjoyment than anger because PMDG exists. Have I paid PMDG hundreds of dollars for the same frikking aircraft over, and over, and over? Yep. Do I enjoy the same frikking aicraft, over and over and over? Yep!

Am I surprised that PMDG has been reduced to releasing an unfinished beta aircraft? Absolutely - I never thought I'd see the day. I didn't think RJR's ego would allow that to ever happen, but I guess when you have a business to keep afloat then you do what you gotta do. The plan to address the XBox audience to maximize profits backfired. This is why FBW and Fenix have more functional and polished aircraft - to the exclusion of the XBOX profits - even though the PMDG 737 has been in development since before MSFS 2020 was released. But again, PMDG is a business ,and a business exists for ONE reason alone: to provide profits for its stake holders. So...

At the end of the day RJR knows what Asobo knows, and what Microsoft knows. Flight Simmers will pay for a product and accept it in any state of functionality to get it now. Asobo released an Alpha product and have spent 2 years getting it to a state that it should have been all along. Heck, FSX was never fixed and Microsoft abandoned it. THANK YOU LOCKHEED MARTIN for all of the work they've done to bring it from a sad, broken 32-bit program to a 64-bit program with literally hundreds of bugs fixed and new features introduced. I've enjoyed thousands of hours in Prepar3d thanks to them and I WON'T FORGET IT.

But I digress - thanks to PF3, AIG, FBW, Fenix and PMDG, I am a MSFS 2020 hard core user. Yes there is LOTS of work still to be done all around but I'm not going to hold PMDG or RJR to a higher standard than anyone else because they talk nice to me. Yeah, RJR is abrasive, and he's made some ridiculous decisions while running his company but so has the head of every company I know - large and small. And the irony is that almost everyone complaining about RJR probably tripped over their dog running to get their wallet to purchase the unfinished MSFS 737-700 on day one. I'm not sure where all this "hatred" for RJR is coming from but man, it's way overdone. And I think much of it is just people piling on with no idea why.

In the end, is the MSFS 737-700 "ground breaking"? Absolutely not. It has less functionality than the P3D version right now. Is it the best 737-700 for MSFS? Sure is! If nothing else PMDG is lucky in one respect. If FBW had released a 737 instead of a A320, they'd be in REAL trouble right now. 

Stay safe and healthy everyone!

Mike T.

 

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4 hours ago, jbdbow1970 said:

Pretty girl with no brain.

those were my favorites 😊


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I’ve been a flight simmer since my honeymoon in 1997 where I became VERY interested in the “Coming Soon” FS98 boxes on display at the software store in Vegas which competed with my gorgeous 23 year old new bride (still married!!!) AND the ATA L-1011 we rode to said honeymoon (I knew that was very much on borrowed time, even as a young man, and that I was lucky to ride on such a plane).

In all of these years, both the PMDG 737-700 and MSFS are my best simulation experiences I’ve had to date, by far.  I’m at the point where I need to force myself to fly something OTHER than the 737...and I can’t wait for the 737-800.

That said, I DO feel old suddenly at 47...when I started flight simming FS98 included the 737-400, and the REAL 737-700s were new....now many are being scrapped...to any young simmers I must emphasize just how FAST life (and simming) goes...enjoy it all!  I remember driving 45 miles One way to a mall to get my hands on a disk that had a few add on planes and repaints I could enjoy at like 12 frames per second!

And I distinctly remember a time when I gave up simming for good when the ACES studio closed...but I, and simming, came back.

Now we have MSFS with lots of competition for add ons, XP12 coming, and even Aerofly FS4 coming this month...good times! (Especially when I get the 737-800, in the meantime the 737-700 is great along with the 146 and ahondajet and others).

 

 

 

 

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" and even Aerofly FS4 coming this month.. "

As VR Flight Sim Guy on Youtube has mentioned more than once, Aerofly has way better performance in VR than MSFS. FS2 of course was a dead sim, in that there were no other moving planes, cars, people. etc. But the fps and lack of stutters in FS VR was much better than MSFS even in 2D. We'll see what FS4 has. 

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