16 minutes ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It just seems that since launch, Asobo’s main focus has been optimizing this sim to play on the Xbox which has brought a lot of hurt for PC users along the way. And Xbox optimization has taken time away from improving core components like ATC, weather or TurboProp modelling which are largely the same as 2 years ago.

Fortunately they have improved the SDK/APIs, although most 3rd party developers would probably say it’s still minimally viable.

I have to use addons for nearly everything because the sim has so many deficiencies, it’s mind boggling… Let me say that again… 2 years later and you need add-ons to cover nearly every aspect of the sim. Many even find the much lauded scenery needs to be enhanced with add-on high res mesh, seasons, trees, marinas, shoreline fixes, textures from Google or Bing newer maps.  It really is pretty ridiculous that after 2 years nearly everything in the sim needs an add-on to fix it. It’s depressing. 

I don’t completely agree with everything you say. Although it seems likely that they’ve had to make some compromises for Xbox, I find that overall the sim works very well (the recent CTDs being a huge exception). Right now I’m flying the Bonanza V35 over the PNW coastline and everything just works. The scenery looks great, the weather behaves as per forecasts and the plane handles very well, taking into account wind speed, direction and turbulence over terrain. 

So far I’ve flown from Jakarta to San Francisco in 13 different GA planes including 6 freeware modded planes, and in most places no scenery addons. So I guess I disagree with the deficiencies you mention. I find this sim to be much more complete “out of the box” compared to other sims I’ve owned.

 

37 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I don’t completely agree with everything you say. Although it seems likely that they’ve had to make some compromises for Xbox, I find that overall the sim works very well (the recent CTDs being a huge exception). Right now I’m flying the Bonanza V35 over the PNW coastline and everything just works. The scenery looks great, the weather behaves as per forecasts and the plane handles very well, taking into account wind speed, direction and turbulence over terrain. 

So far I’ve flown from Jakarta to San Francisco in 13 different GA planes including 6 freeware modded planes, and in most places no scenery addons. So I guess I disagree with the deficiencies you mention. I find this sim to be much more complete “out of the box” compared to other sims I’ve owned.

 

Fair enough. I’ve been doing test flights over Vancouver the last month since I got back into the sim, and you’re fairly familiar with my progress and story. 

I had to install a tree fix for the area, install a harbour add-on, a bridges add-on,  CYVR and CYPK airport add-ons, a Vancouver Island mesh add-on, and an ATC add-on. I also had to buy a Turboprop add-on (Kodiak) and download an airliner add-on (FBW). When fall arrives, I’ll need a seasons add-on. I’m also looking for a mission add-on and maybe a crew add-on, and a ground services add-on. LOL. Do you see my point? 😝

That’s just to get my local area looking acceptable and get some realism.

But on top of that, I’ve spent countless hours configuring controls with API add-ons and trying to get decent performance which brought me here where everyone was super impressed with the latest SU10 DX11 performance… that just gets it back to SU9 levels.  😄

Im enjoying the journey, but it does sound a bit ridiculous when I think about it. 

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by Virtual-Chris

1 minute ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Do you see my point? 😝

I do. I’ve spent a lot of money on this sim and I have a ton of addons both freeware and payware. My point was however that this sim is more feature-complete than other sims. Of course mostly due to the global availability of Bing scenery. I’m headed to Vancouver, so I’ll see how many addons I’ll need to make it look decent 😉 

1 minute ago, Cpt_Piett said:

I do. I’ve spent a lot of money on this sim and I have a ton of addons both freeware and payware. My point was however that this sim is more feature-complete than other sims. Of course mostly due to the global availability of Bing scenery. I’m headed to Vancouver, so I’ll see how many addons I’ll need to make it look decent 😉 

You probably won’t know what you’re missing. But the waterfront is a mess, the bridges are horrible, and the airport is completely blacked out at night. 

2 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Fair enough. I’ve been doing test flights over Vancouver the last month since I got back into the sim, and you’re fairly familiar with my progress and story. 

I had to install a tree fix for the area, install a harbour add-on, a bridges add-on,  CYVR and CYPK airport add-ons, a Vancouver Island mesh add-on, and an ATC add-on. I also had to buy a Turboprop add-on (Kodiak) and download an airliner add-on (FBW). When fall arrives, I’ll need a seasons add-on. I’m also looking for a mission add-on and maybe a crew add-on, and a ground services add-on. LOL. Do you see my point? 😝

That’s just to get my local area looking acceptable and get some realism.

I also fly in Vancouver. A lot of what you are not satisfied with is the limitation of photogrammetry technology at this moment. The photogrammetry technology does not do a good job with harbors, including the cranes and containers in the harbor, and also bridges. But it’s a huge leap beyond anything flight simulation had before so I’m not complaining.  Fly in Vancouver in XP or P3D without any add-ons, and it doesn’t even remotely look like Vancouver in XP or P3D.

FSimStudios is also considering doing a Vancouver scenery package. I suggest you go on their Discord and make some noise about a Vancouver scenery package. This is something they may consider doing after the Canada World Update.

3 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It just seems that since launch, Asobo’s main focus has been optimizing this sim to play on the Xbox which has brought a lot of hurt for PC users along the way. And Xbox optimization has taken time away from improving core components like ATC, weather or TurboProp modelling which are largely the same as 2 years ago.

I think the team responsible for X-Box optimization is different than the team responsible for ATC, which is different than the team responsible for weather.  I say this as someone with experience working in software development team projects.

The only attention any X-Box optimization would draw away from are Seb and Martial.  But Seb and Martial likely are assigning different teams to do the different work. At the developer level, who may be indirectly taking orders from Seb/Martial via the team lead, I can tell you that the skill set for whoever is optimizing DX 12 is much different than whoever is working on the weather. To optimize DX 12, you probably need to know low level GPU programming and GPU architecture. Whichever developer is working on the weather is dealing with the METAR and Meteo Blue API.  The developers are not interchangeable because of the difference in skill set.You probably cannot take the developer in the DX 12 team and replace the developer in the weather team, the skill set is too different and a lot of retraining/relearning would be required,

This is similar to the people who complain that World Updates slow down the number of bugs fixed, World Updates are mostly done by artists. World Updates have no bearing on the bugs being fixed, because the  artists cannot fix the bugs, it’s a different skill set.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

6 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

Fair enough. I’ve been doing test flights over Vancouver the last month since I got back into the sim, and you’re fairly familiar with my progress and story. 

I had to install a tree fix for the area, install a harbour add-on, a bridges add-on,  CYVR and CYPK airport add-ons, a Vancouver Island mesh add-on, and an ATC add-on. I also had to buy a Turboprop add-on (Kodiak) and download an airliner add-on (FBW). When fall arrives, I’ll need a seasons add-on. I’m also looking for a mission add-on and maybe a crew add-on, and a ground services add-on. LOL. Do you see my point? 😝

That’s just to get my local area looking acceptable and get some realism.

But on top of that, I’ve spent countless hours configuring controls with API add-ons and trying to get decent performance which brought me here where everyone was super impressed with the latest SU10 DX11 performance… that just gets it back to SU9 levels.  😄

Im enjoying the journey, but it does sound a bit ridiculous when I think about it. 

Most of these are not fixes, but improvements imho. The sim is not a professional simulator, and certainly not a world-simulator ("traffic doesnt obey local traffic rules" ..!).

It is one thing to come in asking questions to get clarification but when people come in showing their ignorance while trying to pass it off as facts is just funny to me lol

14 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

It just seems that since launch, Asobo’s main focus has been optimizing this sim to play on the Xbox which has brought a lot of hurt for PC users along the way. And Xbox optimization has taken time away from improving core components like ATC, weather or TurboProp modelling which are largely the same as 2 years ago.

Fortunately they have improved the SDK/APIs, although most 3rd party developers would probably say it’s still minimally viable.

I have to use addons for nearly everything because the sim has so many deficiencies, it’s mind boggling… Let me say that again… 2 years later and you need add-ons to cover nearly every aspect of the sim. Many even find the much lauded scenery needs to be enhanced with add-on high res mesh, seasons, trees, marinas, shoreline fixes, textures from Google or Bing newer maps.  It really is pretty ridiculous that after 2 years nearly everything in the sim needs an add-on to fix it. It’s depressing. 

Truer words have never been spoken.   I think roughly at least half of the general aviation airports in the default sim are completely devoid of any airport buildings at all due to an algorithm flaw with the Blackshark AI interpreter.   The development culture with Microsoft/Asobo is such that these inherent deficiencies will never really be fixed during the lifespan of the sim, irregardless of 'roadmap updates' and promises to look into the problem, etc.   The kind of realism features that appeal to hardcore sim users represent only a small fraction of the overall customer base, and therefore are a very low priority development-wise.   The Halo Drop Ship crowd with Xbox controllers are the bread and butter of the income stream.   😉 

All fixes in terms of flight physics will only come from a 3rd party developer who is capable of programming outside of the main MSFS2020 platform and interfacing custom code with that of the core simulation engine.  PMDG is already doing this but only in a limited way.  Look for A2A Simulations to make some pretty huge strides in this direction when they release their upcoming Comanche for MSFS2020. 

Any add-on product that relies on the MSFS2020 core engine will ALWAYS be compromised; this simply has to be accepted.  

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by hobart escin

1 hour ago, hobart escin said:

I think roughly at least half of the general aviation airports in the default sim are completely devoid of any airport buildings at all due to an algorithm flaw with the Blackshark AI interpreter.

This is not true at all. Show a single screenshot of an airport without a building.

The rest of your post just showes that you must talk about something else than MSFS...

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by mrueedi

18 minutes ago, hobart escin said:

The development culture with Microsoft/Asobo is such that these inherent deficiencies will never really be fixed during the lifespan of the sim, irregardless

How long have you worked at Microsoft Hobart E?  Your insoder knowledge could be useful if it was not hyperbole and hate shilled at MS / Asobo for reasons known only to you.

You should avoid making such strong assertions without evidence or knowledge.
 

-B

15 hours ago, turbomax said:

with nobody holding even a simple private pilot license in all of Asobo at the time

That's not true at all. Several of the devs got licenses during the pre-release development of the game. They also work with outside pilots as well when developing aircraft.

 

  

14 hours ago, Virtual-Chris said:

and the airport is completely blacked out at night. 

All the default airports that weren't handcrafted are like that.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by Tuskin38

1 hour ago, hobart escin said:

Any add-on product that relies on the MSFS2020 core engine will ALWAYS be compromised; this simply has to be accepted.  

Seriously? I do not accept that. Your "logic" is flawed.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by MDFlier

2 hours ago, hobart escin said:

The development culture with Microsoft/Asobo is such that these inherent deficiencies will never really be fixed during the lifespan of the sim, irregardless of 'roadmap updates' and promises to look into the problem, etc.   The kind of realism features that appeal to hardcore sim users represent only a small fraction of the overall customer base, and therefore are a very low priority development-wise.   The Halo Drop Ship crowd with Xbox controllers are the bread and butter of the income stream.   😉 

All fixes in terms of flight physics will only come from a 3rd party developer who is capable of programming outside of the main MSFS2020 platform and interfacing custom code with that of the core simulation engine.  PMDG is already doing this but only in a limited way.  Look for A2A Simulations to make some pretty huge strides in this direction when they release their upcoming Comanche for MSFS2020.

The amount of extreme assumptions and conspiracy theories being attempted to be passed off as facts here is something to behold. As you seem to be an insider at MS/Asobo, please enlighten us more on their development culture.

MS/Asobo sure do seem to be doing needless stuff like https://docs.flightsimulator.com/flighting/html/Developer_Mode/Aircraft_Editor/Debug/Debug_Aircraft_CFD.htm and getting into the business of Navier Stokes equations in order to satisfy the "bread and butter" crowd that is the "Halo Drop Ship" folks with XBox controllers. This nonsense about XBox and MSFS being held back all due to XBox is an old conpiracy theory that always falls flat on its face, with enough evidence to the contrary for all of us not wearing tin foil headgear.

The capabilities of the MSFS flight physics engine is already being showcased by the likes of the PMDG 737, Fenix A320, Milviz C310, Sting S4 and lots more aircrafts out there and those to come soon. And even A2A and its accusim tech will be built on top on the MSFS aerodynamics engine... there is no way to run the flight model of an aircraft completely outside of MSFS, unless doing something something extreme for example like running some other sim server with MSFS acting purely as the visual renderer via simconnect or some other linkage mechanism. Yes it is up to expert aircraft developers to properly take advantage of the core flight aerodynamics engine in MSFS to fine tune each aircraft's flight model, and yes MS/Asobo are not aiming to be those experts when it comes to default aircrafts... but even that said, we've got a pretty good default aircraft in the C172, and great ones to come as MS/Asobo wisely contract out to those like iniBuilds for the A310, etc.
 

2 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Any add-on product that relies on the MSFS2020 core engine will ALWAYS be compromised; this simply has to be accepted.  

Lol, you say that with such authority so I guess we should all just believe it.

Edited August 23, 20223 yr by lwt1971

2 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Truer words have never been spoken.  

You should have stopped there 😄 your credibility only went downhill after that 😛