Air France suspended two pilots for a fight on a flight between Geneva and Paris, not specifying the reasons for this fight.

An announcement from the cockpit is probably being studied at Air France for ... seconds out, first take and the sound of the gong!😁
 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/two-air-france-pilots-suspended-for-mid-air-fight

According to Le Point, in addition to confirming the fight between the two pilots, he says that the cause was the co-pilot's refusal to apply an instruction.

Furthermore, on this article, there is a heavy accusation by the BEA (Bureau of Investigation and Analysis) to Air France where it is stated:

" A certain consolidated culture among some Air France crews that favors the tendency to underestimate the contribution of a rigorous application of safety procedures "and invites the French airline to" put compliance with procedures back at the center of the corporate safety culture ".

The BEA relies in particular on an accident that occurred on 31 December 2020 during a flight between Brazzaville (Congo) and Paris in board an Airbus A330. A fuel leak detected at cruising altitude led the crew to divert to the apt of N'Djamena (Chad) but without observing the "FUEL LEAK" safety procedure which involves stopping the engine at the side of the leak.
" The engine shutdown […] was deliberately omitted by the crew. "  notes the report. "This decision has therefore created a significant fire risk and led to a significant reduction in the flight safety margin, the fire was averted by accident, "continues the BEA. While Air France points out the" extremely limited "number of Air France flights giving rise to investigations.

 

https://www.lepoint.fr/insolite/air-france-deux-pilotes-en-viennent-aux-mains-en-plein-vol-27-08-2022-2487514_48.php

Also "In February, an Airbus A350 was put into thrust with only one engine running"

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/air-france-bagarre-dans-un-cockpit-allumage-oublie-d-un-moteur-au-decollage-questions-sur-la-securite-des-vols-928608.html

Edited August 28, 20223 yr by dmwalker

BEA final report on the Air France flight between Brazzaville (Congo) and Paris on 31 December 2020.

From page 47 the SAFETY RECOMMENDATIONS.

https://bea.aero/fileadmin/user_upload/F-GZCJ-VA.pdf

Reminds me of my ATC days in Lake Charles before the strike in 1981. Times when ink pens where thrown and insults hurled over various issues, somtimes procedural, other times petty.  Once a radar tech standing over a controller scurrying to establish nonradar separation after the radar went down yelling "I gonna bus yo head you talk to me like dat."  Sometime later the same tech hit another radar tech in the head with a paper punch sending him to the hospital for stiches. Why? He had the audacity to correct his spelling on a note he left on the black board for the next shift. Do I still miss that job 42 years later? Sometimes, but hey, water under the bridge.  

Edited August 28, 20223 yr by Patco Lch

Well, AF pilots have fought between sidestick priority on A330, have fought between Yoke connect mechanical on 777, and now fight on person then....

17 hours ago, RobPol471 said:

" A certain consolidated culture among some Air France crews that favors the tendency to underestimate the contribution of a rigorous application of safety procedures "

What an incredible way with words! 😄 

That's right up there with how an astronaut described their meals in space:  "It is almost, but not quite, totally unlike real food."

Hook

Can you imagine being a passenger on an airliner, and the two pilots start fighting?

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

What an incredible way with words! 😄 

That's right up there with how an astronaut described their meals in space:  "It is almost, but not quite, totally unlike real food."

Hook

I would just like to clarify that the phrase  " The review of the above-mentioned occurrences suggests that there is a certain culture among some Air France crews which encourages a propensity to underestimate the extent to which strict compliance with procedures contributes to safety."  it is attributable to the BEA as it is written on page 48 of the final report referring to the A330 accident with loss of fuel. The link for this BEA report is in my post prior to this one.

23 hours ago, RobPol471 said:

A certain consolidated culture among some Air France crews that favors the tendency to underestimate the contribution of a rigorous application of safety procedures

Yeah, I know that one with AF pilots all too well. Fortunately we don't do Air France stuff any longer, we lost the contract to Stobart Aviation (along with KLM), and most of us were pretty glad about that. Pretty much every one of us had got into a row with AF pilots at some point about their slapdash procedures. 🤣

Edited August 29, 20223 yr by Chock

22 minutes ago, Chock said:

Pretty much every one of us had got into a row with AF pilots at some point about their slapdash procedures

None more tragic that the AF Concorde crash back in July 2000 and the loss of the A330 in the South Atlantic a few years ago.

So many things went wrong with the Concorde crash with a missing spacer, too much fuel, over MTOW and FE shutting down engines uncommanded by the captain.

Then the two AF pilots fighting each other unknowingly trying to climb out of a stall. You couldn't make it up. I'm not surprised in the least by this latest altercation.

Now this is one cockpit voice recording would like to hear.

8 hours ago, Chock said:

Pretty much every one of us had got into a row with AF pilots at some point about their slapdash procedures. 🤣

When you showed them the pin did they just shrug their shoulders? 🤷🏻‍♂️

51 minutes ago, jon b said:

When you showed them the pin did they just shrug their shoulders? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Prior to pushback clearances they would frequently release the brakes before being given the okay to do so, which is a stupid thing to do, they would sometimes crank the engines pushing back on stand without being cleared to do so, endangering the road man in the process. That sort of thing. But, unlike their own flagrant disregard for the rules, if anyone on the ramp did not follow procedures yo the letter, you could guarantee they'd be the first to report it to Air Ops.

They were so bad that I stopped a push once and informed them I would tell the tug driver to pull their aeroplane back on stand and we would refuse to push them out if they did not start complying with instructions, and I know I wasn't the only one who did that either. As you probably know too, they frequently communicate with French ATC in French, which means other aeroplanes monitoring ATC in the vicinity, who are all using English, have difficulty with situational awareness.

They don't get called Air Chance for nothing. You couldn't pay me enough to ever risk boarding an Air France airliner.

It's no wonder Humphrey Bogart gives those Letters of Transit to Isla and Victor at the end of Cassablanca so they can board that Air France plane, I bet he didn't want to risk getting on the thing himself. 🤣

Edited August 29, 20223 yr by Chock

News host interviews Chief Certified Pilot Instructor for Air France.