19 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

No, you're just wrong.  The most vocal people in the forums and the ones that are most likely to vote on issues are actually the "hard core" simmers, many of whom are real life pilots.  Most of the casual users of MSFS just don't care and most won't bother to vote.  And most casual users don't even know the details of flight models, the details of live weather, the details of the G1000, etc, and they don't care either.

This is why Jorg hired Working Title, because the "hard core" simmers kept complaining about the G1000 and other instruments were missing a lot of functionality, and the lack of progress on them.  I think it's also why Jorg hired Andrey (Petrovich) Solomykin from IL-2 Sturmovik, because the same "hard core" simmers keep nitpicking at the flight model.

It's the "hard core" simmers that are driving the changes in MSFS, and many of the top voted wish list items are coming from the "hard core" simmers . 

 

This actually is not true.🧐  The uninformed are the loudest critics who's actually negatively affected the sim's evolution that has since been corrected.  Examples:

1. Wrong Tree size complaints - sim got screwed up because of this in SU4

2. Night lighting complaints - Sim got screwed up because of this in SU3

3. XBOX integration - Although a Microsoft demand that actually gave the community a shot in the are screwed up SU7 which just got fully resolved for the most part in SU10

4. FDE complaints by gamers not understanding flight dynamics - which brought us the Dolphine Dance Longitude not fully fixed until a couple of post sim updates

5. Wind gusts are too much - new feature introduced in SU10

6. I could go on and on with many other examples but it's too long to list here

 

Positives of gamers (I have to mention this as it's a mixed blessing for the whole community):

1.  The community has grown amazingly since the release of MSFS

2. The performance of the sim.  Because this sime has to perform well on an XBOX we have never had such a smooth running issue free incarnation of any version of FS.  XBOX forced the performance issue to be front and center with constant optimizations.  I'll take the gaming world with open arms for what we have in MSFS. The FSX days are dead an buried.😎

 

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by Dillon

7 minutes ago, CaptBillyBob said:

KISM is where I started training for my PPL about 30 years ago. Do you train there? 

Most of my training was spread out since high school but culminated with North Star Fliers in KANE.  Actually my father had me up in gliders as a teenager.  When I moved to Florida I started flying out of KISM and my son just got is IFR rating there.

26 minutes ago, Dillon said:

This actually is not true.🧐  The uninformed are the loudest critics who's actually negatively affected the sim's evolution that has since been corrected.  Examples:

1. Wrong Tree size complaints - sim got screwed up because of this in SU4

2. Night lighting complaints - Sim got screwed up because of this in SU3

3. XBOX integration - Although a Microsoft demand that actually gave the community a shot in the are screwed up SU7 which just got fully resolved for the most part in SU10

4. FDE complaints by gamers not understanding flight dynamics - which brought us the Dolphine Dance Longitude not fully fixed until a couple of post sim updates

5. Wind gusts are too much - new feature introduced in SU10

6. I could go on and on with many other examples but it's too long to list here

 

Well I disagree with you on some of these.  We had more wind gusts before but they were dumbed down.  It was the hard core simmers that asked for the wind gusts to be added back.

For tree size, I don't know what that has to do with the voters. Weird looking tree sizes is something anyone will notice, even the casuals. 

55 minutes ago, Dillon said:

Ladies and Gentlemen here you have it. 👍

Nevermind the work being done by WorkingTitle where I can go to my local airport KISM and use the real world Garmin as I would use what WT has produced, nevermind every real world approach under VFR conditions I can fly just as I would in the real world with the sim looking just like the real world, etc (I can practice an approach and see the topography around the airport area before actually going there in real life).  Nevermind the fact this franchise has created more real world pilots than any other software in existence/history which pre-dates XPlane.  It's an absolute blessing from high and shocking this can be brought to us for around $60 which makes it no more less relevant of a tool it gives real world pilots.

These same people who think nothing of this title than mindless entertainment will be the first ones to comment on features and argue something's realistic or not to a point they influence the software's trajectory in development if left unchecked...  Again here you have it...😌

Please don't pretzel my words to suit your agenda. Where did I call this game "mindless entertainment". It's entertaining, alright, but also quite challenging.

42 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

No, you're just wrong.  The most vocal people in the forums and the ones that are most likely to vote on issues are actually the "hard core" simmers, many of whom are real life pilots.  Most of the casual users of MSFS just don't care and most won't bother to vote.  And most casual users don't even know the details of flight models, the details of live weather, the details of the G1000, etc, and they don't care either.

This is why Jorg hired Working Title, because the "hard core" simmers kept complaining about the G1000 and other instruments were missing a lot of functionality, and the lack of progress on them.  I think it's also why Jorg hired Andrey (Petrovich) Solomykin from IL-2 Sturmovik, because the same "hard core" simmers keep nitpicking at the flight model.

It's the "hard core" simmers that are driving the changes in MSFS, and many of the top voted wish list items are coming from the "hard core" simmers . 

 

I suspect there are plenty of "casual simmers" who are also "real world pilots". I know, shocking thought. Mind. Blown.

"Hard core simmers", hmmm🤔, I think I'll try this line on my next date: So, what do you do for fun? I'M A HARDCORE SIMMER!!!

I bet that'll go over well. Second date in the bag" Guaranteed!!🙃

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Well I disagree with you on some of these.  We had more wind gusts before but they were dumbed down.  It was the hard core simmers that asked for the wind gusts to be added back.

For tree size, I don't know what that has to do with the voters. Weird looking tree sizes is something anyone will notice, even the casuals. 

The tree size was fine and people complained.  What ended up happening was distance got screwed up, building size got jacked, and it took time to get the tree sized back to what it was originally.

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by Dillon

5 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Please don't pretzel my words to suit your agenda. Where did I call this game "mindless entertainment".

Your whole statement above screamed the statement.  I just capsulized it in two words.🧐

11 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I'M A HARDCORE SIMMER!!!

I bet that'll go over well. Second date in the bag" Guaranteed!!🙃

It worked for a few guys I know especially considering many women are gamers these days.  Most with half a brain understand you need some kind of hobby to take your mind off of this mess of a civilization we have right now.  With all the polarizing rhetoric out there and mindless day to day grind many of us have to do you'd do yourself a favor to have something you enjoy to take you away from it all for a few hours.  Most people understand this more than ever these days, you'd be surprised.😎

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by Dillon

This thread is just another version of the sim vs game debate.

sp

14 minutes ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

This thread is just another version of the sim vs game debate.

sp

No it's not.  It's an effort to keep a feature in the sim that inches it closer to real world dynamics faced by pilots.  You have a segment that's against that.  That's where it all started.  Who are these people mainly?  What do they use this platform for?  There's no debate, it's a reality of different views that has to be discussed if we care about which way this platform goes in the future.  The problem is Xbox users will prevail if the reality of what this platform is trying to replicated isn't explained and identified.😐

Edited September 26, 20223 yr by Dillon

1 hour ago, Dillon said:

1. Wrong Tree size complaints - sim got screwed up because of this in SU4

That was most definitely a valid complaint because mountains used to look like porcupines back then and I absolutely hated it. Things look awesome now, even in my "obscure" part of the world which has not benefited from any world updates.

Apparently to Xbox crowd is getting frustrated again with the realism!

🤣

4 minutes ago, Kilo60 said:

Apparently to Xbox crowd is getting frustrated again with the realism!

🤣

Did you see the result of the vote, or did you just feel like it was time for some trolling?

98 % vs 2% is a pretty clear margin. Only Donald would challenge that vote.

1 hour ago, suncoastflyer said:

As far as my response to the op, I have done a couple flights in this update and have found the aircraft to handle just fine. There are some swings here and there but nothing I have found that you cannot correct with appropriate control inputs.

I agree. I've been chasing gusty wind conditions for the past few days, and although there's a lot more aircraft movement in these conditions, it doesn't seem excessive. Today I've flown in winds above 30kts with gusts at Land's End and St. Mary's, and it's quite possible to handle the Caravan in these conditions. Granted, it's challenging, especially when large crab angles are required, but it's doable. I've seen some movement in the yaw axis, but I don't think that's overdone. 

So as I wrote before, I'd say keep things like this and keep improving, but don't "dumb" things down to make the sim easier to handle. 

6 minutes ago, espent said:

Did you see the result of the vote, or did you just feel like it was time for some trolling?

98 % vs 2% is a pretty clear margin. Only Donald would challenge that vote.

🤣

I think the gust effects are great right now.

If you don't like them don't fly real WX.

No sim really can simulate how a real plane and pilot reacts to gusts.

The problem is there is no seat of the pants feedback. So it takes longer for you to realize that a gust has changed the path of the plane. This makes it feel like gusts are more violent than they actually are. Our reaction time is longer, so the gust has more effect. And our correction is then overdone and this makes things worse. You get "behind" the plane.

It is easier to manage gusty conditions in a real plane than in a sim, at least a desktop sim.

So I can understand why some think it is overdone, IMHO it is not. It is just the limitation of a non moving simulator.