I honestly wouldn't be surprised if PMDG already had the MAX almost finished for MSFS. There was talk years ago that they had the MAX pretty much ready to go for P3D but they were holding off because of the accidents and the bad press the MAX was getting at the time. If they previewed a MAX for MSFS now, I think it kill off a lot sale's for the NG which is the last thing they want to do with a new variant coming out soon and it would also take the spotlight off the upcoming 777 IMHO.

1 hour ago, james42 said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if PMDG already had the MAX almost finished for MSFS. There was talk years ago that they had the MAX pretty much ready to go for P3D but they were holding off because of the accidents and the bad press the MAX was getting at the time. If they previewed a MAX for MSFS now, I think it kill off a lot sale's for the NG which is the last thing they want to do with a new variant coming out soon and it would also take the spotlight off the upcoming 777 IMHO.

Randazzo talks about the 737 Max in the interview with Sky Blue Radio.  Just go to around the 21 minute mark in the video: https://pod.co/sky-blue-radio/jt-welcomes-robert-from-pmdg-to-his-show-9-9

I think Randazzo mentioned something about "737 buyer fatigue," so that's why I think he hasn't been advertising what PMDG has done on the Max very much for MSFS, and if everything worked out for PMDG, Randazzo would release the 737 Max much later in MSFS (but of course, everything is not working out because the timeline for the IFly 737 Max has moved up, given the P3D version has been released already).  From that interview, the feeling I get is that PMDG has done some work for the Max for MSFS behind the scenes and Randazzo is aware of IFly's 737 Max, because I think Randazzo mentions other "competitors in the marketplace" in that interview and he doesn't want these "competitors" to know about the exact release timing of the PMDG 737 Max.  So from this interview, if "competitors" is referring to iFly, based on what Randazzo is saying, I think Randazzo is seriously considering iFly as the main competitor to the Max and he wants to beat iFly by getting the PMDG Max in MSFS first.

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

10 hours ago, F737MAX said:

Disagree. There is *a lot* more money people are willing to be spend on a long-hauler, whatever that is, rather than "yet another 737".

I also don't think iFly are anywhere near ready to launch a MAX for MSFS. Look how long it took them to get a version out for P3Dv5, a platform they were relatively comfortable to design on.

The competition at this point is therefore FBW's A380, iniBuilds' A300, TFDi's MD-11, Aerosoft's A330-300, QualityWing's 787(?), FSLabs' A330, plus JustFlight's A300 and B747-200.
While some are more likely to make a quicker appearance than others, the interest in long-haulers will significantly diminish after the first two (of any type) are released. Therefore, I think some of the players that haven't yet made an appearance yet are a lot closer to a L.H. airliner release than PMDG is.
PMDG got it right last time by releasing relatively early, it also helps that they seem to be the only serious developer tackling the more modern Boeings.
 

Based on what Randazzo said in the Sky Blue interview though (see the link in my post above for Sky Blue interview and the timestamp where Randazzo talks about the 737 Max), Randazzo seems to imply that the Max won't take much work.  So even if PMDG were to do the Max, it would probably delay the 777 a little, but not by a lot of time.

In any case, I believe Randazzo does want to beat IFly with the Max to MSFS, because Randazzo does bring up "competitors in the marketplace" in the part where he talks about the Max.  If Randazzo doesn't care about iFly, I don't think Randazzo would bring up the part about "competitors in the marketplace" listening to PMDG's release schedule with respect to the Max - that whole statement, IMO, seemed to be aimed at iFly.

Also according to the interview, ideally, it seems Randazzo wants to release the Max later because he says there is a lot of 737 buyer fatigue already. But I think things aren't ideal because iFly is much closer now to releasing the Max for MSFS, with the Max for P3D already released.  From that radio interview, to me at least, it seems Randazzo is implying that the Max won't take up that much more work from PMDG's side.  So PMDG benefits more financially by beating iFly to MSFS with the Max, and then resuming work on the 777.

The Max is kind of like a short detour for PMDG, and they can make a lot more money if they beat IFly, and it doesn't delay the PMDG 777 by that much.

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

1 hour ago, abrams_tank said:

Randazzo seems to imply that the Max won't take much work

The EFB did not sound like it would take that much work either, announced back in May and we are heading toward January without even a preview.... Each of the 4 variants was going to be released about 6 weeks apart -- well, the 600 was released on 30 July, about 20 weeks ago. PMDG does good solid work, but it takes them a long time. I just don't see them rushing to release a MAX because of iFly -- they are not particularly strong competition and much of it will be starved off with just an announcement from PMDG.

I've been a PMDG customer since 2004 and absolutely love their products. The problem with PMDG at least in my eyes is this.... take as long as you need to with a product. Set backs and all, but be transparent and less cryptic about what's happening! I've never in my life read such a lengthy post announcement that amounted to a whole lot of nothing. It's amazing what you can do by providing small scraps of RELEVANT and MEANINGFUL information. I don't need a long drawn out post to that spells out everything I need to know in the first two sentences. If I had one gripe with PMDG it's that. Am I owed anything? Absolutely not. Will this prevent me from buying their products? Absolutely not, but I still have my opinion and hope one day they'll do a better job of putting out information to the public about what's happening.

16 minutes ago, Keirtt said:

Set backs and all, but be transparent and less cryptic about what's happening! I've never in my life read such a lengthy post announcement that amounted to a whole lot of nothing. It's amazing what you can do by providing small scraps of RELEVANT and MEANINGFUL information. I don't need a long drawn out post to that spells out everything I need to know in the first two sentences.

Hey at least they say something at all. Many devs are content keeping us completely in the dark. I'd take RSR's theses over Qualitywings' radio silence anyday.

5 minutes ago, kiwikat said:

Hey at least they say something at all. Many devs are content keeping us completely in the dark. I'd take RSR's theses over Qualitywings' radio silence anyday.

Yeah, but the community is hyper focused on PMDG right now and not QW. Good way to get the light off them is to figure out a way to get more info out there. Plenty of other high profile devs seem to have overcome this obstacle... after all these years I'd think PMDG could too. Again, they're one of my favorite devs, but nothing is perfect. 

4 hours ago, james42 said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if PMDG already had the MAX almost finished for MSFS. There was talk years ago that they had the MAX pretty much ready to go for P3D but they were holding off because of the accidents and the bad press the MAX was getting at the time. If they previewed a MAX for MSFS now, I think it kill off a lot sale's for the NG which is the last thing they want to do with a new variant coming out soon and it would also take the spotlight off the upcoming 777 IMHO.

They've also made claims about stuff almost being done (like the NG for MSFS) and it not showing up for years ... It's nice to get updates but proof is in the release

4 hours ago, kiwikat said:

Hey at least they say something at all. 

Most of the time is some random outlash to their masses with no substance. But hey at least they still have the office open. Most other developers don't say much and try to figure things out without going under.

Let's be honest: PMDG is a legacy company, struggling to keep up with the changing environment in which MSFS 2020 operates. This includes, but is not limited to, new ways of
interacting with your customers: the "good old salad days" where interaction was kept to a minimum and was entirely confined to support forums, tucked away in the dark corners on the Internet, are pretty much over. These days you interact with your customers on Discord, Twitch, Reddit, etc. Just observe the real-time interaction customers have with the support staff of the HJet and the Cirrus Vision jet.

Personally, I'm very disappointed with the BBJ 700. It flies well, the systems are well modeled (which is to be expected from a company that has been doing pretty much the same plane for over 20 years, but the whole thing, especially in the visual department, just feels like a haphazard port from P3D. Just walkk through the cabin of the (free!) inibuilds A310, then do the same with the PMDG 700 variant.

Now, I'm fully aware that some folks are going to pooh paah this by saying: "It's all about REALISM!! This is true, but then, again, most of us are sitting on rickety gaming chairs, staring into  a 2-D monitor, while pushing around a cheap plastic joystick. So much for realism.

I mean, I could just print out a giant poster of a 737 cockpit, maybe hook it up to a Raspberry Pi and press make-believe buttons. Pretty much the same realism effect.

I bought this plane based on PMDG's intention to improve it significantly in the feature. I see no timetable suggesting any of these improvements are forthcoming.

JMHO

8 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Based on what Randazzo said in the Sky Blue interview though (see the link in my post above for Sky Blue interview and the timestamp where Randazzo talks about the 737 Max), Randazzo seems to imply that the Max won't take much work.  So even if PMDG were to do the Max, it would probably delay the 777 a little, but not by a lot of time.

In any case, I believe Randazzo does want to beat IFly with the Max to MSFS, because Randazzo does bring up "competitors in the marketplace" in the part where he talks about the Max.  If Randazzo doesn't care about iFly, I don't think Randazzo would bring up the part about "competitors in the marketplace" listening to PMDG's release schedule with respect to the Max - that whole statement, IMO, seemed to be aimed at iFly.

Also according to the interview, ideally, it seems Randazzo wants to release the Max later because he says there is a lot of 737 buyer fatigue already. But I think things aren't ideal because iFly is much closer now to releasing the Max for MSFS, with the Max for P3D already released.  From that radio interview, to me at least, it seems Randazzo is implying that the Max won't take up that much more work from PMDG's side.  So PMDG benefits more financially by beating iFly to MSFS with the Max, and then resuming work on the 777.

The Max is kind of like a short detour for PMDG, and they can make a lot more money if they beat IFly, and it doesn't delay the PMDG 777 by that much.

you constantly underestimate the development time for MSFS for P3D port-overs. You make it sound like "Now that the Ifly Max is out for P3D, it's a matter of weeks for MSFS!". if it was that easy, PMDG wouldn't have taken almost 4 years to develop its long-time-P3D 737. My guess is that the IFly for MSFS will either never come because they go bankrupt before or in 2024 at the earliest.
You make the same mistake for the PMDG Max by thinking "It was allegedly almost ready for P3D, so they can release it basically instantly for MSFS whenever they want!". Look how much delay the 737 variants took now, and they are basically the same airplane - even IF the Max had been ready for P3D, for MSFS it would take at least 3x or 4x the amount of time of a 737-variant to port over, so at least a full year.
All that uncertainty especially about IFly will mean they will be doing what they always planned to do: The 777 in 2023 and the 747 in 2024, probably only one variant first and the others later.

I doubt that development of the MAX variants would not take too much work. If Robert Randazzo implied that in any interviews, I am guessing it is because most of the work has already been done in the background. There would be significant differences in the cockpit (with those larger screens as a starting point), and also the 3D model and sounds (particularly where the engines are concerned).

On a side note, that departure in the 737NG Driver flight video on the previous page is incredibly jerky. Even I would not be happy with a framerate like that.

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by Christopher Low

13 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

you constantly underestimate the development time for MSFS for P3D port-overs. You make it sound like "Now that the Ifly Max is out for P3D, it's a matter of weeks for MSFS!". if it was that easy, PMDG wouldn't have taken almost 4 years to develop its long-time-P3D 737. My guess is that the IFly for MSFS will either never come because they go bankrupt before or in 2024 at the earliest.
You make the same mistake for the PMDG Max by thinking "It was allegedly almost ready for P3D, so they can release it basically instantly for MSFS whenever they want!". Look how much delay the 737 variants took now, and they are basically the same airplane - even IF the Max had been ready for P3D, for MSFS it would take at least 3x or 4x the amount of time of a 737-variant to port over, so at least a full year.
All that uncertainty especially about IFly will mean they will be doing what they always planned to do: The 777 in 2023 and the 747 in 2024, probably only one variant first and the others later.

Oh, I don't think I ever said the iFly 737 is going to be released within weeks, or even within months.  But if my memory is correct, I think in one of the iFly updates in the past, they mentioned they were working concurrently on the P3D and MSFS version of the Max (sorry, I don't have the exact link to that text excerpt, but I have been peeking in the iFly forums and their updates on the Max from time to time).

So if iFly has been working on the MSFS version of their Max for some time, I don't think they are starting at ground zero like other P3D devs who haven't done any work at all on porting their plane to MSFS.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

My guess is that the IFly for MSFS will either never come because they go bankrupt before or in 2024 at the earliest.

Wow, may I ask how you came up with this prediction and what are your reasons for this?

Edited December 20, 20223 yr by abrams_tank

19 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Wow, may I ask how you came up with this prediction and what are your reasons for this?

From what I gathered they haven't been working on the MSFS, at least not properly (like coding etc.). They are a very small team, IIRC 2 devs, and I cannot see them paralelly develop the Max for P3D AND MSFS if not even PMDG can develop two variants (!) of their old 737 at the same time. That's how I came up with "2024".
And as for the bankrupcy, it was more or less a short statement for the same old  "If you develop an aircraft with hundreds of thousands of $$$ developments costs for P3D with its marginal sales, you better have a huge cash reserve or secondary income from commercial/military projects - or you'll go bankrupt".

13 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

From what I gathered they haven't been working on the MSFS, at least not properly (like coding etc.). They are a very small team, IIRC 2 devs, and I cannot see them paralelly develop the Max for P3D AND MSFS if not even PMDG can develop two variants (!) of their old 737 at the same time. That's how I came up with "2024".
And as for the bankrupcy, it was more or less a short statement for the same old  "If you develop an aircraft with hundreds of thousands of $$$ developments costs for P3D with its marginal sales, you better have a huge cash reserve or secondary income from commercial/military projects - or you'll go bankrupt".

iFly have a history of making planes in FSX even when PMDG had established products in the market and many users had moved onto P3D. Seeing that they are still around, wouldn't count them out so soon. It's always great to have more companies contributing to the hobby 🙂