4 minutes ago, Doering said:

Very true Glenn! I follow Aerobask very closely. From all indications, they are not interested in developing for MSFS. There must be valid reasons? They have cut back on their product line dramatically! 

Interesting, I have been waiting to see if Aerobask and VSKYLABS would develop for MSFS as I prefer the smaller GA aircraft and Helis. However, I think we will see more MSFS developers fill in that gap (especially Helis, as it has already started) in 2023.

And if not, it sounds like Asobo will improve upon their default small GA fleet like the VL3, Virus etc. I would love to see a G3X version of Flight Design's CTLS or even better, their new F2.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t understand your first sentence. Please clarify.

FS Labs have been producing and selling quality aircraft for many years. I think it’s fair to assume they know the market. If they didn’t they wouldn’t still be around.

I don’t think they do to be honest. Since the beginning they were dismissing MSFS as serious platform and then they realized “ops we missed the train, we need to hurry up”. I mean I can’t imagine if I have a company with a popular product that I know if I bring this product to this new massive market I would make serious amount of money (before Fenix and FBW) but instead I dismiss this market? Maybe they have different income? Don’t know.

I hate to admit it but RSR played his cards right and now for sure he’s making revenue like never dreamed of.

59 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

The somewhat pricey "Professional-Use" version has a guaranteed market with training schools 

"Certification requires not only that the user have the certified X-Plane software, but also certified hardware (cockpit and flight controls) available through companies like Precision Flight Controls and GLEIM Aviation. This is because flight training systems can only be certified as a complete package (a software and hardware combination). The certified software is available for $500 to $1,000 per copy from PFC and GLEIM and the hardware runs from around $8,000 to $500,000 depending on your needs."

'Tis a little pricey isn't it? 😧

41 minutes ago, Glenn Fitzpatrick said:

The somewhat pricey "Professional-Use" version has a guaranteed market with training schools so the platform will not disappear, but user interest in the game version will drop off eventually unless a reasonable number of devs keep supporting it.   

Until Microsoft gives in to the many requests they're receiving (for obvious reasons) and trounces X-plane on that front as well. They have held said requests at bay for 2 years because they wanted to focus on improving the core platform for simmers, but now I expect things to start moving on other fronts very soon from what they've said.

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t understand your first sentence. Please clarify.

I had literally just mentioned people trying to dismiss MSFS as simply eyecandy. 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

FS Labs have been producing and selling quality aircraft for many years. I think it’s fair to assume they know the market. If they didn’t they wouldn’t still be around.

The industry is chock full of developers that have experience, resources, and market insight that dwarf a small developer like FS Labs, and they still misread the industry and make mistakes. It's not like FS Labs themselves haven't made very public large mistakes in the semi-recent past. In my workplace, I hear the "they're experienced developers, they must know better" argument all the time, and it's really out of touch.

While some increasingly weak arguments can be made about X-Plane being worth using for (very) few aspects that may still hold some form of advantage over MSFS, that's definitely not true for P3D. MSFS makes it enturely obsolete under every point of view. The only reason I may think of for which someone may argue the opposite is that they haven't touched MSFS in the past several months, or even followed related news. 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Concorde is unique in both speed and altitude. It’s certainly not an aircraft that you will have a lot of time to look out of the window admiring the scenery. If you do it will almost certainly get away from you.

I’ve said this on more one occasion but it’s worth repeating. When you’re accelerating from Mach 0.95 to Mach 1.7 in a little over 8 minutes does it really matter what the scenery looks like? If you operate her correctly you’ll be over non-populated areas anyway. i.e. the ocean. What is there to see? 😉

Sales of the P3D version may surprise many. It’s a challenging aircraft to master and that will appeal to a completely different group of simmers than those who like admiring the views in MSFS.

If you still have v5 installed you may well be tempted if you like flying exciting aircraft. Concorde is in a league of its own.

Hello Ray, I'm very familiar  with the Concorde and have flown the FSL Concorde  for FSX and P3Dv3.  Even mastered the fuel system. I still have P3Dv3 installed just for Concorde, but being a 32bit platform, I still have lots of OOM errors and have to do a lot of downgrading my resolution, etc. in order to fly it. So, I rarely use it anymore. I have been waiting a long time for an upgrade to the Concorde, but to buy the new one for P3D V5,  just for the Concorde, knowing it is also coming to MSFS does not make sense to me.  If FSL charges what I thing the price will be, it will likely cost me $125 to $150 Canadian. Since all my aircraft I love to fly are already available or will be released in 2023 for MSFS, I don't want to have to maintain P3D anymore when MSFS has everything I need and love. I agree you don't see much at altitude, but you do still have to take off and land and having nice scenery without low framerates and studders is nice when taxing. take-offs and landings. I fly mainly in VR now, and MSFS gives me good performance, with good visuals at complex airports. With P3D, that's not the case for me when compared to MSFS. 

But who knows, like a kid in a candy store, I might not have the will power to wait for the MSFS version. 

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I can't imagine anyone that already has the Fenix, buying another Airbus from FS Labs....

Buddy, they are working on an A330....there's also more to the 320 series than wingtip fence CFM models.....

13 minutes ago, Bigt said:

Buddy, they are working on an A330....there's also more to the 320 series than wingtip fence CFM models.....

Fenix will likely release the other models before FSlabs gets around releasing the first thing for MSFS. 

I wouldn't be surprised if someone announces and releases a quality A330 before FSlabs gets there as well. 

Just now, Abriael said:

Fenix will likely release the other models before FSlabs gets around releasing the first thing for MSFS. 

I wouldn't be surprised if someone announces and releases a quality A330 before FSlabs gets there as well. 

Lol, now this I agree with. FSL moves at a snails pace and it is really annoying.

12 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

 

The only people not using MSFS are the "hard cooooooar" people haha! 

 

Or people who don't have stacks of spare cash to get another simulator, when the one they have is more than good enough.

9 hours ago, Sky_Pilot071 said:

FS 2002 was probably the worst version in the franchize.

sp

Everything from FS5 to FS2002 was rubbish. Sadly, I spent money on all of them in the forlorn hope that each successive iteration would be "the one".

13 hours ago, jrw4 said:

Undoubtably, but the real question is by how much XP11 usage will then decrease. In other words, will XP12 bring in new users, or just be adopted by those dedicated to that system? Also, how much leakage will there be in the form of XP11 users switching to MSFS?

Time will tell.

They asked that question last year, and interestingly, most X-Plane new users came from MSFS 2020. It will not affect the relative percentages between MSFS in the slightest, obviously.

Since X-Plane v12 was still in Beta when this survey was available, it's unsurprising to see the "low" adoption. It's almost certain that now that v12 is Release Version, over the next 12 months there will be a precipitous drop in v11 as folks reach their comfort zone and upgrade from v11, or as you say, perhaps make the big leap to MSFS.

12 hours ago, ca_metal said:

I wasn’t expecting it would almost double the %. 😂

Remember those are hardcore users. People that invested a lot on their main sims and are a little reluctant to move.

I have a ton of $$ in P3D just to improve the way it looks, add weather, etc.

I keep it around as the aircraft from A2A Sims, Majestic, a couple MilViz and the PMDG 747-8i are too good to retire just yet.

But the simple fact of the matter is even with all the upgrades it still doesn't measure up to FS 2020 - even if 2020 is kept at absolute box stock.

So I've absolutely no qualms about moving to FS 2020, especially now that devs are in the first stages of delivering quality CFD-Lite flite models.

I have a feeling that we will all get a surprise next year / 2024 with LM P3D, and that's the kind of feel that surely does not come from the numbers in this survey.

I believe that along 2023 XP11 users will mostly migrate into XP12, and that more users will find in X-Plane 12 a very interesting platform for using sophisticated add-ons like the Challenger 650, or simply enjoying the superior quality of X-Plane's flight dynamics.

MFS is here to stay for sure, and it's a revolutionary platform in the way it does scenery and in some way weather too, and in the way it set a new "pricing strategy". OTOH I fear not much more in terms of it's flight dynamics and systems modelling will evolve from what has been reached so far. I even start to fear we will not see that promised new ground physics model...

To me the biggest competitor will be P3D + Unigine, and yes I am aware it hasn't been officially introduced as the successor for the scenery engine of their P3D simulation platform.

Also, IMO, as a Flight Dynamics Engine P3D / FSX still offer a more detailed and open to talented developers base for development than MFS. P3D being already 64 bit and DX12 is the natural option, and with the possibility of getting Unigine for the World, I am sure it'll make a huge difference from what it is today, and a strong enough one to bring back the attention of most users. I'd say that around 2024 if this really turns out to become the future of LM's P3D we will see P3D 2nd place, and with time maybe even 1st...

Edited December 23, 20223 yr by cagarini

8 hours ago, Noel said:

The certified software is available for $500 to $1,000 per copy

what exactly is the 10-20 x times price difference compared to the non-certified x-plane version except for the copy-protection USB stick?

2 hours ago, IanHarrison said:

people who don't have stacks of spare cash to get another simulator

Microsoft Flight Simulator Standard 40th Anniversary Edition

$47.99