PMDG 737 flight model question

[CanadaOne 36]

Hello,

 

Though not a hardcore systems guy, I like the best eye candy and flight model possible. I saw a review that says the PMDG 737-600 flight model is the MSFS flight model, does that mean it's a "standard in-game" model like the included A320 or has it been improved? (I would get the Fenix A320 but my cash is already in my Steam wallet so I just buy in the marketplace.)

 

And if anyone knows when the next marketplace sale might be... 😎

 

Thank you.

[Bobsk8 12,826]

PMDG 737 is one of the best if not the best airliners in any sim you can find, 

[CanadaOne 36]

2 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

PMDG 737 is one of the best if not the best airliners in any sim you can find, 

 

Defintely great reviews everywhere. And you would say the flight model is better than, for example, the in-game A320?

[Fiorentoni 4,303]

10 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

Hello,

 

Though not a hardcore systems guy, I like the best eye candy and flight model possible. I saw a review that says the PMDG 737-600 flight model is the MSFS flight model, does that mean it's a "standard in-game" model like the included A320 or has it been improved? (I would get the Fenix A320 but my cash is already in my Steam wallet so I just buy in the marketplace.)

 

And if anyone knows when the next marketplace sale might be... 😎

 

Thank you.

I have a feeling you use the word "flight model" differently than it's used normally in that context. You seem to mean the "looks", while flight model actually means the flight dynamics.
Whatever it is, it'd be a "no" in both cases: The PMDG is not standard, but custom. It looks fantastic from inside and outside and has a very good flight model (-> dynamics etc.) (probably the most realistic in all of MSFS). However, don't expect PMDG to ever go on sale. But it's worth it full price (as is the Fenix, by the way).
Actually I think you can easily retransfer from your Steam wallet back to PayPal, so this shouldn't be a problem. I highly recommend NOT buying an aircraft on the marketplace, especially not the PMDG. You'll have a huge problem getting liveries and you'll get patches veeeeery late compared to buying it on the PMDG website.

[DD_Arthur 1,088]

11 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

And if anyone knows when the next marketplace sale might be... 😎

I don’t know when the next market place sale is on but I very much doubt any PMDG products will be part of it.

As it is, the 737 600 represents excellent value for money in my opinion and is a great first complex airliner.

PMDG have used the tools available to them that the sim provides to build the flight model - it’s come a long way since FSX days - and again, in my opinion, they’ve done a great job. It also excels in being a great reproduction of the systems and modelling whilst also being very frame rate friendly.

[CanadaOne 36]

Just now, DD_Arthur said:

I don’t know when the next market place sale is on but I very much doubt any PMDG products will be part of it.

As it is, the 737 600 represents excellent value for money in my opinion and is a great first complex airliner.

PMDG have used the tools available to them that the sim provides to build the flight model - it’s come a long way since FSX days - and again, in my opinion, they’ve done a great job. It also excels in being a great reproduction of the systems and modelling whilst also being very frame rate friendly.

 

Ahhh, we've met on other sites. We've spoken a few times at IL2 or DCS. 😎

 

Defintely the flight dynamics, as Fiorentoni out it, that interests me. I think I'm going to grab the 737-600 today. Between the reviews and the confirmation here, seems like a good choice.

[Christopher Low 5,379]

It absolutely is a good choice. I have been flying the -600 since FSX, and this MSFS version is almost certainly the best value that you will ever see for a "study level" airliner.

[JBDB-MD80 1,480]

Grab the PMDG 737-600 from the PMDG site and not the MP and you are good with a yoke. Second option Fenix A320 or try the Free FBW A320nx which is very good and payware quality using a joystick.

Edited February 25 by JBDB-MD80

[lwt1971 7,451]

1 hour ago, CanadaOne said:

Tough not a hardcore systems guy, I like the best eye candy and flight model posible. I saw a review that says the PMDG 737-600 flight model is the MSFS flight model, does that mean it's a "standard in-game" model like the included A320 or has it been improved? (I would get the Fenix A320 but my cash is already in my Steam wallet so I just buy in the marketplace.)

 

Some common misconceptions in play here I suspect.. there is no one "MSFS flight model", it's the sim's flight dynamics engine (FDE) and SDK/tools that combine to help aircraft devs build out a flight model (FM) of each aircraft. When it comes to in-game/default aircraft, it's Asobo who also then play the role of aircraft developers to build out the default fleet's FMs. 

Both the PMDG and Fenix, like many other high fidelity add-ons that use the core MSFS FDE and are customized/tuned for their particular aircraft, are fine examples of flight models. It's the expertise (of the aircraft developer) behind this tuning/customizing and how they make use of the MSFS FDE and SDK is what ultimately makes or breaks a particular aircraft's FM.

While the current standard in-game A320 might not have a good FM, that speaks more about the work/time put into fleshing out that particular FM by Asobo. That said, they also have (with the help of Working Title joining Asobo) been able to build out excellent FMs on some other "in-game" aircraft (like the 787, Citation, CJ4, etc), and all of those are based on the core FDE too like the PMDG/Fenix/etc.
 

Edited February 25 by lwt1971

[jcomm 5,970]

The only supposedly totally external flight models are those of the Flyinside Bell 47 and another of their models, a Bell 206, and the A2A Comanche.

I honestly can't find either to be superior to the best native-based flight model aircraft I've been able to use so far, my preferred being the default c172 and a mod of the default c152 as well as the PMDG 737, the FBW A320 NEO and Fenix A320 CEO.

I still don't like the helicopters though 😔

And... MFS is still being fine tuned and adjusted until the release of MSFS 2024, and I believe we will be able to get an even more sophisticated core FDM with that new version of the sim.

Edited February 25 by jcomm

[JYW 2,989]

This "using the MSFS flight model" is a big red herring.

All aircraft, except a tiny few (listed by jcomm above) have their flight model designed and configured in MSFS.   The sim has millions of available parameters for coding a flight model.   I think you're being misled by the few posts we've seen lately where people refer to "the MSFS flight model".  There is no such thing as "the MSFS flight model", as though it's some generic set.

There is the "MSFS flight dynamics engine" and that is what almost all developers code their flight models within.

[UrgentSiesta 936]

4 hours ago, CanadaOne said:

Though not a hardcore systems guy, I like the best eye candy and flight model possible. I saw a review that says the PMDG 737-600 flight model is the MSFS flight model, does that mean it's a "standard in-game" model like the included A320 or has it been improved? .

In re the "standard in-game" flight model, there are basically TWO: one is a significantly rewritten development of the FM that came from FSX/P3D. The vast majority of MSFS addons (especially airliners) use this. And as noted elsewhere, highly competent developers can make a convincing FM using it.

There is also the CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) / Soft Body Simulation / New Propellor Simulation modeling. (Note that MSFS' CFD implementation is greatly streamlined to allow real-time performance on a desktop PC). This is somewhat similar to XPs BET (Blade Element Theory). CFD delivers (IMHO) superior flight characteristics to the default MSFS flight engine - when it's done well.

In re the 737, FlightDeck2Sim (an IRL 737 Captain and IP who prefers the XP Zibo 738) has had high praise for the flight model of the PMDG 737. IIRC, he says one of his very few AND minor critiques is the way the PMDG handles on short final thru touchdown. And he did say the difference isn't something big enough to dissuade anyone from choosing one over the other.

Interestingly, iniBuilds, a highly praised dev, and one of the very few to move from X-Plane to MSFS, has said that their A310 (a free Default but High Fidelity MSFS bird) performs & handles within just a few percentage points of their version for X-Plane. They credit this to their use of MSFS' CFD. I presume this extends also to their more recent payware A300 for MSFS.

There's also an IRL airline Captain around here who has high praise for the Default 747-8 flight model. It, and the 787, also got significant systems upgrades during the AAU upgrade program.

Edited February 25 by UrgentSiesta

[UrgentSiesta 936]

2 hours ago, jcomm said:

I still don't like the helicopters though 😔

 

They are definitely an "acquired addiction" 🙂

The modern ones with SAS/FBW can be quite docile (such as the HPG H160).

Most important thing to remember when flying them is to never, Never, NEVER rush things. 2nd most important is with helos you have to anticipate rather than react.

[CanadaOne 36]

I grabbed the 737-600. The price was right and I'll wait for the 777 to get a big plane. I want to fly a skyscraper and that one should be pretty sweet.

 

The 737 is very nice. Love the handling. Though I did screw up my first flight badly enough that I got an email from PMDG suggesting I give the plane back and stick to playing with LEGO. But you really do feel the  difference in quality pretty quick with this thing compared to the default jets. I guess I have many tutorial videos ahead of me and that's just fine.

 

Thank y'all for the help. Defintely a good purchase. 😎

Edited February 26 by CanadaOne

[UrgentSiesta 936]

28 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

I grabbed the 737-600. The price was right and I'll wait for the 777 to get a big plane. I want to fly a skyscraper and that one should be pretty sweet.

At $36, the 736 is without a doubt the best bang for your buck of any airliner addon in any sim.

Heck, it might be for any addon in any sim...

Also a bit of a sports car as far as airliners go. You can get it into and out of a great many general aviation fields 😁

I'm will undoubtedly be handing more money to PMDG when the MSFS 777 releases. I never got it for P3D because the Queen of the Skies is my preferred sky scraper. So it should tide me over til the Queen arrives in MSFS any year now 🤙