12 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Legacy aircraft (and the MD11 is about to become one in real life) don't sell well in MSFS

Is this so? I have wondered about that. Personally, I have no interest in legacy aircraft but I notice there is a good selection of them, from Concord to Just Flight's offerings, that I figure must be interesting enough to a sufficient number of people for these companies to make them.

2 minutes ago, Cognita said:

Is this so? I have wondered about that. Personally, I have no interest in legacy aircraft but I notice there is a good selection of them, from Concord to Just Flight's offerings, that I figure must be interesting enough to a sufficient number of people for these companies to make them.

Yes, but only because they either do massive cuts in the quality to reduce the costs of development (Concorde) or they demand a very high price (Maddog). But they don't sell "well" compared to the modern aircraft. Just look at LatinVFR selling their A32x stuff even when there's already one very good payware (Fenix) A320 and 2 very good freeware (!) A320 and A330 available. MSFS has ripped the market wide open, so many many customers are people that literally only know the aircraft they've been on in their last holiday flight. They would never know what a MD11 is, let alone buy it for 90 dollars.

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Yes, but only because they either do massive cuts in the quality to reduce the costs of development (Concorde) or they demand a very high price (Maddog). But they don't sell "well" compared to the modern aircraft. Just look at LatinVFR selling their A32x stuff even when there's already one very good payware (Fenix) A320 and 2 very good freeware (!) A320 and A330 available. MSFS has ripped the market wide open, so many many customers are people that literally only know the aircraft they've been on in their last holiday flight. They would never know what a MD11 is, let alone buy it for 90 dollars.

Yea, good points. 

For me, I know the aircraft, but I prefer to fly real world routes and real world operations.

2 hours ago, Fiorentoni said:

Yes, but only because they either do massive cuts in the quality to reduce the costs of development (Concorde) or they demand a very high price (Maddog). But they don't sell "well" compared to the modern aircraft. Just look at LatinVFR selling their A32x stuff even when there's already one very good payware (Fenix) A320 and 2 very good freeware (!) A320 and A330 available. MSFS has ripped the market wide open, so many many customers are people that literally only know the aircraft they've been on in their last holiday flight. They would never know what a MD11 is, let alone buy it for 90 dollars.

So what is there to say for JustFlights offerings? With prices similiar to modern payware for msfs while offering relatively the same fidelity, how does your claim makes sense? Worse so when Justflight continues to produce legacy offerings and practicing evolutionary prototyping with each release?

Obviously they will never sell as well as a modern variant, that makes sense, but they sell well enough that it's a fruitful endeavor. Personally, I applaud it as its the aircraft that most interest me.

1 hour ago, Lucky38i said:

So what is there to say for JustFlights offerings? With prices similiar to modern payware for msfs while offering relatively the same fidelity, how does your claim makes sense? Worse so when Justflight continues to produce legacy offerings and practicing evolutionary prototyping with each release?

Obviously they will never sell as well as a modern variant, that makes sense, but they sell well enough that it's a fruitful endeavor. Personally, I applaud it as its the aircraft that most interest me.

Agree, I’ll fly the heck out of the MD11, just as I’ve put a bunch of hours into the A300. While both are in limited service, I’ve got no problem loading up a legacy flight from FSDispatch or flying a FedEx route. 
 

Though, has *anyone* here actually flown this thing by buying into their early access program?

I simply don’t trust this isn’t going to be the buggy mess that was the 717, which took nearly a year to be just okay. 

1 hour ago, mspencer said:

Agree, I’ll fly the heck out of the MD11, just as I’ve put a bunch of hours into the A300. While both are in limited service, I’ve got no problem loading up a legacy flight from FSDispatch or flying a FedEx route. 
 

Though, has *anyone* here actually flown this thing by buying into their early access program?

I simply don’t trust this isn’t going to be the buggy mess that was the 717, which took nearly a year to be just okay. 

I bought into the CE program. I think the crew at TFDI will put out a good product, but it'll take some more time after launch to develop into something solid. I'm waiting to see how their latest update feels to make a determination on the flight dynamics. Right now it still doesn't feel right and I feel like they're going to catch a ton of flak if it's not improved before launch. Very twitchy with the pitch.

14 minutes ago, Keirtt said:

and I feel like they're going to catch a ton of flak if it's not improved before launch

nothing new just have to look at all the other addons that has been released

On 5/16/2024 at 9:06 PM, JBDB-MD80 said:

Decent looks is not gong to cut it today in MSFS. Its going to be the most expensive addon to date for MSFS even the Leonardo Maddog X. The systems better rival PMDG, Fenix or Leonardo, or there could be many unhappy people on (Youtube, twitch, Reddit etc. will be flaming them) I suspect. I'm waiting to see before purchasing. I really hope they nail it systems wise even if the Model is not up to par as it is a well anticipated product.

Yeah, the internet naysayers can say what they want. "They" said the same for several planes and developers and you know what....I ended up getting these planes and enjoying them. I remember the backlash for FSS Embraer jets. You know? Love 'em. COWS DA42 was hated as well. You know...I love it too. It's newest beta is amazing. The FSW 414 wasn't loved during it's initial beta/early but you know...I fly that way more often than I did the much lauded Milviz 310. I still think that's "meh" in comparison.

The maddog was released and several people (even now) are/were not happy with it. For a while, too. PMDG and Fenix had their share of issues. Some for years. The PMDG had some unspent bugs (737 and dc6) and the Fenix had some odd performance bugs as well.

Though, I agree. I won't be buying it as I already have a ridiculous amount of planes as it is. Give it time.

This flight sim community needs to stop hating so much. This is not at all directly pointed at you.

9 hours ago, Lucky38i said:

So what is there to say for JustFlights offerings? With prices similiar to modern payware for msfs while offering relatively the same fidelity, how does your claim makes sense? Worse so when Justflight continues to produce legacy offerings and practicing evolutionary prototyping with each release?

Obviously they will never sell as well as a modern variant, that makes sense, but they sell well enough that it's a fruitful endeavor. Personally, I applaud it as its the aircraft that most interest me.

I‘d say the BAE146 did sell well, but only because IIRC it was one of the first high fidelity aircraft in MSFS, people were longing for something „deep“. About the Fokker 28, I already said above that I think it sold badly. This is of course pure speculation, based on the (very low) number of Avsimmers talking/asking about the Fokker and based on the (very low) number of videos available.
So that‘s the two legacy offerings JustFlight released for MSFS, or did I forget one?

That said at no point I said they‘d be making a loss, I just said the sale numbers will be a small percentage of those of the modern stuff. This doesn‘t necessarily mean that it‘s a net loss, just that the profit margin is small. Aamir once said that he figured that CaptainSim‘s net profit is about 20x (!) that of Fenix… and now let‘s imagine how high it would be compared to the Fokker. That‘s what I mean with modern aircraft vs legacy aircraft in regards to sales.

6 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

This flight sim community needs to stop hating so much

I've noticed this after a 4 year break from simming switching over to msfs on new computer. Almost every opinion and (ugh) YouTube review seems to be either 

A) "omg the awesomeness of this best ever ground breaking game changing add on will improve your life forever!!" 

Or 

B) "Absolutely wna product that should have been thrown out the litter at birth can't believe I wasted 10 bucks of my hard earned cash on this but I'm still gonna waste another 4 hours making video about how wna it is and the devs should be looking for new jobs. "

Forums not much different sadly. Constructive criticism or balanced reviews seem to be out of favor. You're either WITH us or AGAINST us. 

RIP objectivity. 

8 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Forums not much different sadly. Constructive criticism or balanced reviews seem to be out of favor. You're either WITH us or AGAINST us. 

I disagree, I find most people here on Avsim to be balanced and/or constructive most of the time. For Youtubers you were spot on, of course.

1 minute ago, Fiorentoni said:

people here on Avsim

Indeed but there are plenty of forums not so polite. I was referring to ALL Internet forums as a general rule. Of course there is definitely polarisation here too, just look at ASFS for a start! Much more polite though. 

10 minutes ago, sloppysmusic said:

Indeed but there are plenty of forums not so polite. I was referring to ALL Internet forums as a general rule. Of course there is definitely polarisation here too, just look at ASFS for a start! Much more polite though. 

I get what you mean. These are the times.

So which is going to be released first, MD-11 or 777?

Really looking forward to this. Miss the PMDG MD11 days.   An aircraft that was a real mix of Boeing and Airbus logic, with balanced automation but still requires a decent amount of manual input and monitoring.  Think TFDI are committed to it being an outstanding release.  Bring on the cargo flights.