Captains,

What is This?:
Yesterday we pushed a major change to the 737 fleet that moved the airplane from an outmoded navdata format to Navigraph's modern navdata format.

We have been tracking reports from a number of users indicating that they see one or more of the following three issues:

One/Both tablets has a black screen.

One/Both tablets has a black screen with a spinning PMDG logo.

Navdata ceases downloading at 75% or thereabouts and never continues.

Items 1 & 2 above have been resolved in an internal build. We are testing that change and will send it to you in a micro ASAP.

Item 3 is a bit more sticky.

IMPORTANT: This item should only apply to 737 users who are also Navigraph customers who also attempted to udpate their navdata via the PMDG Universal Flight Tablet, and found that the download "got stuck" before it completed.

We have spent all of today trying to sort out what is causing the issue and how to mitigate it even temporarily so that those affected by it can return to flying normally and enjoy the benefits of the new update. The goal is always a permanent fix, but right now we are still trying to determine the cause, as in pre-production testing this issue was not reported.

Our efforts at data collection and research have brought us to examine a point of interface between the PMDG airplane and the Navigraph application that is embedded with the product to handle the in-game navdata update process. This in-game updating is critical to our serving MS Marketplace customers who are on the Xbox platform, and we are among the first developers to be using this particular methodology developed by our friends and partners over at Navigraph.

This particular point of intersection between the PMDG airplane and Navigraph applet is just about the worst possible place to have a problem creep in, because even working closely with our friends and partners at Navigraph, each of us can only see part of the operation and thus it takes incredibly good communication and a bit of good luck to be able to determine the root cause in a fashion that can be replicated in a test environment.

The good news is that we succeeded in replication. The other good news is that we have a temporary mitigation recommendation that will get most of you back to normal operation. The bad news is that we don't have a fix for the problem yet- but work continues.

What the Problem Looks LIke:
You have installed the 737, updated the PMDG Operations Center, the updated the 737 via the Operations Center. You loaded the 737 into MSFS and then tried to update the navdata using the navdata update application page in the tablet. The download progresses, but stops at 75% (some users report slightly higher/lower, but in the neighborhood of 75%) and remains hung there, with no further progress.

How we are going to un-stick you:
Navigraph has added a new navdata cycle to their update hub specifically to help get folks un-stuck while we work together to find a more permanent solution.

What to Do:

1. Exit MSFS.
2. Go to Navigraph's Downloads page by clicking here.
3. Download/Install Navigraph Hub.
4. Update the PMDG 737 using Navigraph Hub.
5. Re-launch the sim and the 737.

Once you are here- DO NOT attempt to then re-update the navdata from within the sim via the tablet, as you might just re-trigger the problem. If you can't help yourself and you attempt to update via the tablet and find yourself stuck again- don't panic. Just come back here and follow these instructions and you should be back to normal ops again.

What Happens Next:
We spent about 18hrs working with Navigraph today to nail down this issue. Both teams are a bit frustrated that it did not appear in testing, and I don't think either team has a clear idea what the root cause of the issue might be. We will continue to work the issue until it is resolved, and then we will push out a fix for it.

In the mean time, we are testing the fix for items #1 and #2 on the list at the top... we'll roll those out as soon as possible- as those were embarrassing reversions on our part that need to get fixed.

Sorry for the frustration- it has been a journey on this end as well- but we'll get it resolved.

Edited October 26, 20241 yr by MikeH99

4 hours ago, MikeH99 said:

What to Do:

1. Update the PMDG 737 using Navigraph Hubl

 

Nice, but the 737 does no longer show up in the Navigraph hub...

Just started the Navigraph-HUB and the PMDG 737 are back again.

Achim

Rob really needs to learn how to waffle less, especially given the international audience he’s dealing with… For anyone allergic to his posts, hopefully this helps:

 

Captains,

Overview:

Yesterday, we released a major update to the 737 fleet, transitioning to Navigraph’s modern navdata format.

 

Current Issues:

We’ve received reports of three key issues:

1. Black screen on one or both tablets.

2. Black screen with a spinning PMDG logo on one or both tablets.

3. Navdata download stalls at 75% and doesn’t complete.

Issues #1 and #2 have been resolved internally and will be fixed in an upcoming micro-update.

 

Issue #3 Details:

This issue only affects Navigraph customers who attempted to update navdata via the PMDG Universal Flight Tablet, where the download gets stuck around 75%. Our testing didn’t catch this, so we’re working closely with Navigraph to identify and resolve the issue, especially as it’s critical for Xbox platform users.

Solution to Get You Flying Again:

Navigraph has introduced a new navdata cycle to temporarily address this issue. To get unstuck, please follow these steps:

1. Exit MSFS.

2. Go to Navigraph’s Downloads page (click here).

3. Download and install Navigraph Hub.

4. Update the PMDG 737 via Navigraph Hub.

5. Restart MSFS and load the 737.

 

Important Note:

After following these steps, do not reattempt updating navdata via the tablet within the sim, as this may re-trigger the issue. If it does happen, simply repeat the above instructions.

Next Steps:

We’re working diligently with Navigraph to identify the root cause and will continue until a permanent solution is ready. Meanwhile, we’re preparing a micro-update to address issues #1 and #2 as soon as possible.

 

Thank you for your patience and understanding. We’ll keep you updated.

3 hours ago, AnkH said:

Nice, but the 737 does no longer show up in the Navigraph hub...

Let me guess, you wrote this without even checking first?

They brought it back for this workaround.

Workaround fixed the database problem for me. I did reinstalled a freshly downloaded Navigraph Hub to ensure that things had been reset.

Really odd that something like this did not appear in testing.....

Probably a silly question, but I'll ask anyway in the interest of clarification.

Does step #3 also apply to the B77W? I attempted a flight in it yesterday (I have not loaded the 737's for a flight since the update), but when I tried to update the navdata via the tablet, got stuck at the 75% download point.

Regard,

Scott

But didn't the Bible salesmen say that the problems were only in the heads of the haters?

32 minutes ago, ndflieger said:

Probably a silly question, but I'll ask anyway in the interest of clarification.

Does step #3 also apply to the B77W? I attempted a flight in it yesterday (I have not loaded the 737's for a flight since the update), but when I tried to update the navdata via the tablet, got stuck at the 75% download point.

Regard,

Scott

I also got stuck on the download in the 777. I’m mid flight currently so will try to resolve it when I land. 

1 hour ago, jrw4 said:

Workaround fixed the database problem for me. I did reinstalled a freshly downloaded Navigraph Hub to ensure that things had been reset.

Really odd that something like this did not appear in testing.....

I suspect that maybe they have one or two beta testers and maybe one PC. I find it really hard to believe that dozens of users found this issue almost  immediately after installing the update, and PMDG didn't see anything during their "testing". 

43 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I suspect that maybe they have one or two beta testers and maybe one PC. I find it really hard to believe that dozens of users found this issue almost  immediately after installing the update, and PMDG didn't see anything during their "testing".

I agree that it is strange they missed a set of issues that so clearly affect a sizeable group of customers. To give PMDG credit, most of their releases and updates go quite well and there are not major issues. In this case, yes, it seems that either the testing protocols were not robust enough, the testing pool was too small, or they are using the same group of testers a lot and those testers have gradually adapted their system set-up for PMDG testing, consciously or unconsciously. In all cases this is an operational testing management issue. 

TL;DR

We couldn't figure out how to download 3 files from the internet.  So we asked Navigraph to do it for us.  Took them a few seconds.

I'm leaving the PMDG 737 in the Hanger. I'm enjoying the iFly Max8 way too much!

Wow, I’m full of word salad now. Typical Randazzle drivel.

4 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

I'm leaving the PMDG 737 in the Hanger. I'm enjoying the iFly Max8 way too much!

No one asked. 😉